Well I think he was addressing our national myth of progress & exceptionalism. Defining why even the most exploited or downtrodden among us could continue to embrace Crapitalism.
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Everyone has to be rich now??
- Thread starter Cadillac_Mike
- Start date
This may come off like a brag, but I am posting as an illustration that sometimes there is a silver lining surrounding the cloud. I was born in 1949 and had the typical mid-century white southern middle class upbringing. Went to college and switched majors my first five quarters, finally found compatibility as an English major.
Spent far too long as an English major and graduate teaching assistant in graduate school and, after completing about 70% of my doctorate, adjunct instructor then shifted over to library school. I wanted to be a university reference librarian in the humanities. Interviewed at University of Georgia (salary offered $16,000) and Ole Miss ($12,000) but got neither job. Auburn was offering $19,000 but I did not apply.
Then I saw that l'il ole Jacksonville State wanted a LITERATURE specialist librarian, and my course work in English suddenly became more important than my lack of dissertation or Ph.D. degree. In 1985 I was offered a starting salary of $23,500 and, Alabama being a low cost of living state and Jacksonville being a small college town and me having just become a single parent, I leaped at the offer. The perfect job for me.
I rented until about 20 years ago when I bagged a 1600 square foot 1942 farmhouse with an acre of land for $28,500. It's quiet; my nearest neighbors are a herd of cattle (adjacent) and a herd of bison (across the street) and on my daily commute to work I passed six pastured horses and a donkey, a goose pond, another herd of cattle, and I have to look out for squirrels and wild turkeys crossing the road. I have a fresh creek with drinking-pure water flowing right out of the rock about 300 yards from my back fence.
My house is paid for, my daughter's education is paid for (I assumed her loans for college and grad school), my three cars -- none of them less than twenty years old, but I keep up the maintenance -- are paid for. Between my university service and my payments into Social Security I have ninety years worth of benefits, and that does not count my TIAA 401(k) which my university enrolled me in and paid into, even in all those years when I didn't.
All I've ever wanted from life is to live comfortably and securely and, barring an apocolypse-level calamity, I've got that. I have everything I want and more than I need (like far too many basses). I am content.
So even in today's times the American Dream is still possible.
George Gershwin wrote a song titled "Someone to Watch Over Me", and I think in my case it absolutely applies. Someone HAS been watching.
Spent far too long as an English major and graduate teaching assistant in graduate school and, after completing about 70% of my doctorate, adjunct instructor then shifted over to library school. I wanted to be a university reference librarian in the humanities. Interviewed at University of Georgia (salary offered $16,000) and Ole Miss ($12,000) but got neither job. Auburn was offering $19,000 but I did not apply.
Then I saw that l'il ole Jacksonville State wanted a LITERATURE specialist librarian, and my course work in English suddenly became more important than my lack of dissertation or Ph.D. degree. In 1985 I was offered a starting salary of $23,500 and, Alabama being a low cost of living state and Jacksonville being a small college town and me having just become a single parent, I leaped at the offer. The perfect job for me.
I rented until about 20 years ago when I bagged a 1600 square foot 1942 farmhouse with an acre of land for $28,500. It's quiet; my nearest neighbors are a herd of cattle (adjacent) and a herd of bison (across the street) and on my daily commute to work I passed six pastured horses and a donkey, a goose pond, another herd of cattle, and I have to look out for squirrels and wild turkeys crossing the road. I have a fresh creek with drinking-pure water flowing right out of the rock about 300 yards from my back fence.
My house is paid for, my daughter's education is paid for (I assumed her loans for college and grad school), my three cars -- none of them less than twenty years old, but I keep up the maintenance -- are paid for. Between my university service and my payments into Social Security I have ninety years worth of benefits, and that does not count my TIAA 401(k) which my university enrolled me in and paid into, even in all those years when I didn't.
All I've ever wanted from life is to live comfortably and securely and, barring an apocolypse-level calamity, I've got that. I have everything I want and more than I need (like far too many basses). I am content.
So even in today's times the American Dream is still possible.
George Gershwin wrote a song titled "Someone to Watch Over Me", and I think in my case it absolutely applies. Someone HAS been watching.
I don't think you said that enough
and relax, I agree on that regard - but the effects of marketing and extremely wealthy companies putting constant pressure on individuals can't be ignored. These companies try many, many underhanded, unethical, and illegal ways to make us part with our money, and that can't be ignored.
Okay, you completely lost me with this. That's a ridiculous notion. Have you ever actually been poor? And not $200k a year poor lol. Food insecurity. Homeless. No healthcare. No clothes. Etc. like, poverty poor.
Edit: this hits a nerve with me. I grew up extremely poor, well below the poverty line; I was amongst the poorest in an area that was already very poor. Many ppl don't realize how hard that is. I grew up hungry a lot, hand me down clothes (at best) with holes in them, etc. it was not fun. I also picked up certain life long habits because of that.
Also, Internet is hard sometimes.
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Today's Los Angeles is a lot closer to the Eagles than the Beach Boys. Not for me under any circumstances.I just wanna make Hanna Barbara references to distract myself from the fact that I will never be able to afford a house in Los Angeles.
The country when from a frugalist (save your pennies) to a consumerist culture (buy, buy, buy) just after the end of WWI.I don't think you said that enough
Here’s some hard truth: the poor and downtrodden in our country live better than any poor in any other country and better than most folks in 3rd world countries. We have the fattest poor population anywhere. No one is starving in America. We have a mixed system with government involved in the economy to some extent but our prosperity is driven by the so called “Crapitalism”.
I know I don’t see a lot of 3rd world countries out there with a “Crapitalism” economy.
You're good, man. It was somewhat tongue in cheek. And I agree that those companies are terrible for doing that. I just disagree that people should be considered victims for making decisions based on such outside influence.I don't think you said that enough
Made sense to move here when I did. I was a young pretty-boy then. That was 33 years ago. Now I'm comparatively a beat-up ol' warhorse.
That's not what I (or most people) would consider greed. Wanting more of something that is critical to survival isn't greed, especially if you don't have much; wanting excess amounts at the expense of others, hoarding wealth so that others can't, selfishness ... Those are hallmarks of greed. I would give your professor an F
Exactly. Greed. It's not enough to have "enough," it has to be constant growth, more and more at any cost, and to other's detriment.
That's a big part of late stage capitalism
capitalism at all costs without safeguards to keep things in bounds.Edit: also, I'm definitely not anti capitalism - far from it. I've benefited from the system (again tho, I also realize that I'm privileged in that regard). It's the unfettered, growth and money as the sole goal at the detriment of everything else that is the issue.
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Sounds great and very close to what my wife and I did, we're in our late 50's, but it seems to me that conditions today are WAAAAY different than when we started. Our work ethic is the same, but the cost of getting started is exponentially higher.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that they were victims, not at all. They certainly aren't blameless, for sure. My point was that there are a lot of other factors at play as well.
Tbh I hate the victim mentality. People should take responsibility for their actions, but then again, so should those people on corporate boards.
I grew up well below the poverty line, so that's my definition. I experienced that spectrum of society growing up. My neighborhood, clothes, friends, opportunities (or lack of opportunities), etc...were decidedly on the lower end of the spectrum. We faced a lot of challenges, but never seemed to go without food, housing, clothes, or healthcare (military provided healthcare).
It's why I asked how "poor" was defined. Everyone seems to define it differently.
I edited my original post to add more context, sometimes I tend to rattle things off and then I go back and oooooooo ....not trying to be argumentative, and appreciate the conversation. And the same here. Grew up well below the poverty line in a very poor area at that. I definitely went without - a lot.
I'm gonna guess that growing up poor affects how you view things today and your lifestyle, etc. as well. It certainly did mine.
OK Parzival, we are discussing THIS country. The Global South is a whole other discussion. I was paraphrasing a respected author, who I happen to agree with. You don't need my permission to NOT agree, and it don't think less of you for it. If you sensed my disdain for our current system it's because it very obviously is not working.
I know I don’t need your permission and I don’t care what you think. And yes, we are talking about this country and while we may have some issues, we don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water. By comparison. Our system works better than anywhere else. Maybe not every single person, but on whole, yes.
That's thin logic for NOT improving a thing.
It absolutely impacts it, which I was going to mention. We are a product of many factors. I think the biggest gift that poverty gave us was the early realization that we couldn't buy our way out of challenges in most cases. If a sewer pipe breaks under your trailer, you can't call a plumber to fix it. You're gonna be the one under the house crawling through sewage to fix it. If the car breaks, you gotta figure it out. There's literally no other option. You either figure it out yourself, or it doesn't get resolved. It builds a self-reliance that is impossible to replicate when you have plenty. My kids will fortunately (and unfortunately) grow up in such a way that they'll never really know that mindset. They'll have to learn it artificially somehow.
I'll disagree based on the data. The debt is an issue, no doubt about that. But rising debt hasn't led to higher inflation. Take a look at annual inflation in the US over the past century. Other than the 2022-23 global inflation spike resulting from the bounce back from the pandemic, inflation hasn't been anywhere near the 1970s (post-1950) peak.
