Excuse me... what the Bass?

[Tommy V]

Photoshop, and not very well done at that

 

[FrenchBassQC]

Mutant basses are coming this way... The frets have fallen off on one of them.

 

[ObeyDaRiffness]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but having owned both a P & a Ray, I always thought it was the design of the Ray's mighty humbucker that gave that tone. Location definitely plays a huge role, I agree, but IME, the closer to the bridge, the thinner the sound.

Any thoughts?

It is a combination of design and placement. Any kind of humbucker in that spot has something of the MM tone. Even If you take any bass and play it unplugged plucking where the MM bucker would be, you can hear that punchy, tight low end and creamy kind of rasp. And yes of course it's gonna be thinner than a P bass. I WANT a thinner P bass sound. I'd get a P bass otherwise.

look closer at the photos everyone. they are photo shopped.
the musicman pickup and knobs are photo shopped. the tort pickguard with the p pickup is photo shopped in and the tort control plate and knobs. the strings on both basses do not line up.

Photoshop, and not very well done at that

I know. I did it myself. I thought it was so obvious no specification was needed

 

[wraub]

...a good tuner can adjust for that, shop around...

... but not 403 or 401.

 

[Rib 13]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but having owned both a P & a Ray, I always thought it was the design of the Ray's mighty humbucker that gave that tone. Location definitely plays a huge role, I agree, but IME, the closer to the bridge, the thinner the sound.

Any thoughts?

Ray Tone is three things:

1) Pickup Location
2) Parallel wired MM....A Series wired MM will not get a signature Singray tone
3) Proprietary nature of MM Preamap (some aftermarket/third party ones emulate it, but you just can't put any pre-amp in)

 

[Rib 13]

No, It won't sound like a P bass. It will sound like a P pickup in rhe stingray position.

OK,...I took it as you meant it would sound like a P-bass, of which I looked at the post strange....

....carry on...

 

[ObeyDaRiffness]

Ray Tone is three things:

1) Pickup Location
2) Parallel wired MM....A Series wired MM will not get a signature Singray tone
3) Proprietary nature of MM Preamap (some aftermarket/third party ones emulate it, but you just can't put any pre-amp in)

Well I think a series wired stingray STILL sounds like a stingray but with a different flavor... and stingrays without preams too, but it's a little duller, honkier, however i still think "Stingray" if I hear that. I don't know how to explain it but they all just sound like redefinements of the same main chunk. I think you can take one of the factors out of the equation and still get quite right there but in a way that suits your taste better.

 

[Chickenwheels]

View attachment 3398536
I'm speechless.

Looks cool!

 

[Rib 13]

Well I think a series wired stingray STILL sounds like a stingray but with a different flavor... and stingrays without preams too, but it's a little duller, honkier, however i still think "Stingray" if I hear that. I don't know how to explain it but they all just sound like redefinements of the same main chunk. I think you can take one of the factors out of the equation and still get quite right there but in a way that suits your taste better.

you like arguing with me today? ...ok,i'll play: no it doesn't...the difference is actually drastic. Its one of the weird exceptions of the "you can mimic a lot of basses by just pickup location" rule, because of how (2) the parrallel wired MM works with the (3) proprietary nature of the preamp as well as (1) pickup location. You need all three to get 'Ray....Theres a bunch of low-budget 'Ray clones with Series wired pickups that have a few familiar voicing characteristics (because of location) but they are still in another zip-code away from 'Ray. Ask any Carvin owner with an older MM/J, many of which had a Series wired MM --- soloing that pickup is still far removed from a 'Ray (and kinda disappointing)...On the other hand, there are some MM/J basses, like some Maruszczyks, that have them wired Parallel and pre-amps constructed to mimic, that you cant tell it isnt a Ray when the MM is soloed.....I don't feel like explaining it (and I only have a pedestrian knowledge of it anyway) but, don't worry, its possible MM folks will be along at sometime in this thread to explain why 'Ray tone is a balanced orchestra of Parallel wired MM, pickup location, and the proprietary nature of MM Preamap ....................

 

[Stevorebob]

StingRay tone is the pickup, the pickup position and the preamp — all three.

Any other pickup in the StingRay position sounds different. A StingRay pickup positioned anywhere else sounds different. Any other preamp — or no preamp — with a StingRay pickup in the StingRay position sounds different. Case in point: The StingRay Specials have a new pickup and preamp, but in the same StingRay position, and they sound different from the previous StingRays, though very much in the same neighborhood.

Parallel is classic StingRay tone; series is a variation of the StingRay tone.

I do not know the point of the argument, but thought I would try to get some things straight and maybe ease some tension. (Oh, and your darned mileage may vary, so maybe I’ve just made things worse.)

 

[Malak the Mad]

look closer at the photos everyone. they are photo shopped.
the musicman pickup and knobs are photo shopped. the tort pickguard with the p pickup is photo shopped in and the tort control plate and knobs. the strings on both basses do not line up.

Totally agree. That tortoise shell control panel on the MM wouldn't cover all the routing or the previous metal panel's holes if it were real.
The strings on both basses around the cut and pasted pickups don't join properly either. Look at the end of the fretless's neck!

Photoshop, and not very well done at that

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed! Then again, it depends on the intent of the 'shopper. If all they wanted to do was a quick and dirty "What if…?", then that's all the work one need to put into it. There's no shame in that. But if they were trying to pass it off as something that actually exists in the real world…and I'm speaking as someone who's been called upon to simulate non-standard basses in Photoshop…total, epic fail!

 

[Rib 13]

StingRay tone is the pickup, the pickup position and the preamp — all three.

Any other pickup in the StingRay position sounds different. A StingRay pickup positioned anywhere else sounds different. Any other preamp — or no preamp — with a StingRay pickup in the StingRay position sounds different. Case in point: The StingRay Specials have a new pickup and preamp, but in the same StingRay position, and they sound different from the previous StingRays, though very much in the same neighborhood.

Parallel is classic StingRay tone; series is a variation of the StingRay tone.

I do not know the point of the argument, but thought I would try to get some things straight and maybe ease some tension. (Oh, and your darned mileage may vary, so maybe I’ve just made things worse.)

i actually thought the debate was civil and respectful
....and thanks for the support in what i posted

 

[ObeyDaRiffness]

Listen, I never said a P pickup (preferrably a quarter pounder) in the stingray location wired in parallel with a MM preamp will sound like a perfect hybrid of P and MM, I just thought it would be interesting because of the inherent tonal characteristics of the "MM sound secret recipe" components thrown in the pot here (of course, here the one lacking is certainly the most important one). The stingray has his own, glorious, perfect tone, which can't be fully imitated by anything, nobody's denying that. I just wanna try some variations to see if perhaps I'll like 'em as their own thing, for the sake of trying.

 

[ObeyDaRiffness]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed! Then again, it depends on the intent of the 'shopper. If all they wanted to do was a quick and dirty "What if…?", then that's all the work one need to put into it. There's no shame in that. But if they were trying to pass it off as something that actually exists in the real world…and I'm speaking as someone who's been called upon to simulate non-standard basses in Photoshop…total, epic fail!

I just thought it was so obvious they were mockups there was no need to say it.
By the way, I'm planning to build the P bass in transparent black burst with a transparent pickguard, while the MM in trans white/tortoise.

 

[Malak the Mad]

I just thought it was so obvious they were mockups there was no need to say it.

I guess you could call it an unintentional litmus test that shows where each, individual TBer's sensibilities lie. For the overwhelming majority, it's the nuances of pickup selection and placement. For a handful of us, it's the fact that the pics had been 'shopped and whether or not they were meant to be passed off as authentic. Regardless of what it is that sticks in our collective craws, the whole thing is a big bucket o' learning experiences.

By the way, I'm planning to build the P bass in transparent black burst with a transparent pickguard, while the MM in trans white/tortoise.

Transparent Black? Awesome!

Transparent pickguard? Not my personal preference (if no guard is necessary, I like a clean, unobstructed view), but to each their own.

 

[Rib 13]

Listen, I never said a P pickup (preferrably a quarter pounder) in the stingray location wired in parallel with a MM preamp will sound like a perfect hybrid of P and MM, I just thought it would be interesting because of the inherent tonal characteristics of the "MM sound secret recipe" components thrown in the pot here (of course, here the one lacking is certainly the most important one). The stingray has his own, glorious, perfect tone, which can't be fully imitated by anything, nobody's denying that. I just wanna try some variations to see if perhaps I'll like 'em as their own thing, for the sake of trying.

what you said was:

they all just sound like redefinements of the same main chunk.

of which you included passive Rays which you said

and stingrays without preams too, but it's a little duller, honkier,

Dude, there's no "little" honkier or "little" duller like its just a variation of a theme. Its drastic... Like I said earlier: Its weird - they are one of the few exceptions of the "pickup positioning can emulate anything" mantra..... ....P-basses are much simpler: Series wired pickup in the P-sweetspot in relationship to the bridge -- that's it...no other bells and whistles. Even a fat-single coil, or soloing the front pickup on a G&L L2000 in Series, or a J-pickup with a really good low-mid boosted preamp that wont buzz when soloed (like a Sire V7) will all get P-tone.....Stingrays are head scratchingly not like that......Argue with me all you want, I've said all I needed to say .....I'll leave you with this: Find any bass with a Series wired MM in that position without the pre and an actual Stingray and A/B them yourself

 

[P. Aaron]

Wondering if I woke up in the wrong universe.

Some things should not be done...just...uh, BECAUSE!