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Explain me the 'Fender is God' thing

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Like it or not :hmm:, "The Fender Bass" (as the instrument was exclusively known in the late '50s) absolutely defined the look and sound of what we now (quite rightly ;)) call the "electric bass guitar" (although this smilie appears to suggest otherwise ...:bassist:) :D.

What's more, it was so widely used right throughout the 60s and 70s, that it also defined the tone of the bass guitar. That's not to say that it's "the best sounding bass ever", simply that it is the key reference tone for (most) producers and session musicians, the world over.

No other brand has had an impact of that magnitude on the world of the electric bass guitar, even to this day. That, my friend ;), is what all of the "Fender nay-sayers" are up against - The weight of history :smug:!
 
definition : Fanboy (any individual who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession).

Since we have both (pro-fender and anti-fender) fanboys... we get topics like these.

I'm pretty sure he was aware of what a fanboy is. I think lumping boutique players as anti-Fender fanboys is giving yourself too much credit.

The reality is that Fender appeals to a mass audience. If you need other things, you either pay the Custom Shop an arm or a leg or find someone else to do it. How long did it take for them to release the Steve Bailey 6 strings?! Some of us simply have needs that Fender will not release affordably.
 
Which basses take half a day to dial in?

It would take 3 days to dial these in! :p

DSC01152.jpg
 
I actually own a fender, but I didn't buy it for the name, it just happened to be the bass I liked. worries and requirements about the P bass sound, fender sound, etc etc ad infinitum are all just people indicating what they prefer. And you know how people are....

we haven't changed for thousands of years.... it's just like the trial of socrates. Here is the story if you don't know it (I'll try to keep it brief): Socrates consulted the oracle and was told he was the wisest man alive. He didn't believe the oracle, so he searched for a man wiser than he was. He found many people who were wise about a particular thing. the politicians were wise about politics. the economists were wise about making money. the musicians were wise about music, etc etc etc. He never found anyone as wise as himself, I guess as his philosophy can be generically applied to all things. The interesting thing is that all the wise people he met (that were wise about only one particular subject), they always purported to be wise about everything else too. Ask the politician to fix the economy (lol!), ask the economist to run the government, ask the guitarist to fix the drum beat, etc etc etc. You've probably encountered this phenomenon many many times yourself and have probably been guilty of it as well ;) The moral is that human nature is such that we often pretend to know more than we do, and do it quite frequently, without any just cause. I've never met anyone who hasn't done this. it is ingrained into our mental makup.... we intuit things instinctually, act on them, and think on them. then sometimes end up talking about what we intuited, which may or may not be wrong (at least that is the basic level grounding, it is obviously more complicated than just that)

So, just because someone knows a particular brand of bass guitar and sound, and it works for him/her, that is great. but that doesn't necessarily mean that they know anything else ;)

And forget this "The weight of history" thing, that means absolutely nothing. Sure, lots of fenders are being played now, and everything's great in the fender world. but in 50 years it could very well be that nobody is playing fenders anymore, cause something else takes off. Just because it's been around and has a history, doesn't mean it will survive (not that I think of it, much like the human race ;). Or... just because it's good, doesn't mean there won't be something better coming along.
 
Fender was the first,period!Look around,...check out any brand of bass,other than fender,and you'll see,AND hear some sort of fender design.In my long career,I've owned several basses,...Alembic,Musicman(which is a direct Fender creation),Carvin,and some custom-made instruments,made specifically to my specs.But in the end,I came right back to my FIRST love,...FENDER!I currently play Fenders,exclusively,and I'm the proud owner of 3 Fender Jazz Basses: A'76 Jazz Bass(Which I actually bought back in 1976),a fretless standard(1994),and I recently purchased a Deluxe Active Jazz Bass.Not only are they the first in many innovations,they're still very affordable,appreciate with age,and as well,has made some major upgrades.This is still the sound you hear on many major recordings,...if not most!Not to mention that they're easily serviced.Like I say to all of my beginning students:"You can't go wrong,with a Fender!"You just can't! Peace!
 
Half the day? Surely you jest. Which basses take half a day to dial in?


I wouldn't know. I play a p bass. ;)

..but seriously...

Yes, exageration, but... if an engineer has his name on the finished product, you can be sure he's going to want your (pick a brand) bass to sound as good as he can make it. (as well as all the other instruments and vocals)

Remember thier reputation is on the line with the recording too. If it comes out sounding lousy, it's not going to reflect well on them.

I know I've heard bad recordings and said "who the hell recorded that mess?"
I'd imagine label execs, radio people, and other engineers are a lot more critical than I am.

With a P or J, they'll most likely be able to do that quickly. With another bass ?? Who knows? ...and if the engineer is particularly fussy(I wouldn't work with one that wasn't) then it might just take a while.

Add to that, the fact that you're probably going right after the drums, and those can certainly take a while.

To each his own, but if it takes a while, it's on your dime. ;)
 
OK,:D OK, so your passionate about your Fenders.
I've learned that they sit well in a mix, something I did not know.
I've learned that there are a lot of stodgy bassists out there who're somewhat afraid to leave their comfort zone. So if everyone else has one why should I buck the trend types. C'mon out and play with the tigers people, it's a lot of fun.
I've gathered up a few more tidbits of history. I thought that Uncle Leo WAS the first, but I know differently now.
Yes there are a lot of imitators out there, however that gives 2 schools of thought. 1: They're just cashing in on the hoodoo surrounding Fender or 2: They're on to something...
I've learned that engineers are, ah, oh hell, this'll stir 'em up, lazy, because they'd rather not learn how to work another instrument if they've got a 'FENDER' preset ready to go.
Most of you can present very rational and objective views, even if you're not in the 'YES I LOVE FENDER" spirit squad. Then there's the rest of you. I refer to the "I rather get killed by a falling Fender than play your bass." types. Just a suggestion, next time you should check out someones gear list BEFORE you sound off and appear like a twit.....
It's possible that the push is on at stores due to margins, if they've recently gone up in price, that doesn't mean the ones you have in stock were obtained at the new higher price

I thank all of you for your opinions, maybe a second look is in order.

Drunk Heffalump
 
This thread is still going? They are truely historical, iconic, and an industry standard, but what's so special about them compared to other brands? < rhetorical.
No offense to any Fender guys, but I think they're just plain jane looking - bland sounding basses compared to many other brands including Ibanez SR series. :smug:
 
I've been poking around music stores in search for the ultimate 5 string, and everywhere I go somebody, be it hired help or just interested parties is trying to jam some Fender or another down my throat. Just so's you know, I only looked at the higher end models, so no Squires. Sorry, give me made here or go away, anyway, under the 'bang for your buck' in looks, finish, playability,weight I find they're wanting, not to mention the damn things eat up a lot of real estate. So someone explain why all the hype? Or has Uncle Leo worked the hoodoo on you too?
2 days and 10 pages! Nothing quite like questioning the Fender "mystique" to get the keyboards rattling.

First, if you are in search of the "ultimate" 5 string, you're going to have to work through probably 6 - 8 really expensive instruments - Alembic, Smith, MTD, Sadowsky, Alleva Coppolo, Zon, etc etc - before you are going to begin to have the slightest concept of what works best for you. And no one on this board can tell you any different.

And, yes, Fender would make that list, because they do make some fine instruments.

In particular, you need to be aware that making a quality 5 string is not just slapping a 5th string onto a 4 string instrument. The neck on an electric bass is a surprisingly complex thing to get "right," and this is even more the case for a 5 string than a 4. I believe this is also a particular trick for a bolt on neck, and many of those makers spent considerable time on the bolt on 5 string neck technology. Whether or not the extra effort is really worth it for the few extra low notes is somewhat dubious, but I can't argue that a good 5 string is really useful.

So, you will also find a lot of ho-hum to dud performers out there in the music shops, even from solid companies; and especially in the 5 string game.

And, Fender would make that list. So, be warned.

But, just because you might happen on, say, a Lakland 5 that you like and that Fender the sales guy threw at you sucked, doesn't mean that Fender sucks.

Historically with 4 stringers, Fenders have had a tone that sits well in a mix, they are comfortable, reasonably priced, and what everyone expects to see and hear. And, with typical production variability, there have been some real gems that endeared themselves to players.

So, when players began looking for 5 stringers, there was immediately a lot of interest in Fenders. Seems normal. Problem, as described above, is that getting the 5 right takes some serious elbow grease. And, in fact, the good 5 string Fenders are NOT just a 4 string Fender with an extra string. They are different beasts.

If you want a good 5 string Fender, you will need to seek out the Marcus Miller 5, the Victor Bailey 5, the Custom Classic 5; and I would try to find one of the old P Deluxe 5's (though they don't make them anymore). Along the way, you will encounter a bunch of good 5's made by Lakland, MusicMan etc etc; and you may decide you like those more. That's OK too.

Or maybe you will spec out a $20k snazzy Alembic. That's OK too.

IMO/IME, if you are looking for the most solid construction/useful tone/low cost 5 string out there, find a MusicMan StingRay 5 on the used market. at about $800 you can't do a whole lot better.

So, the Fender thing isn't hype, but based on decades of real experience by knowledgeable players. And, yes Leo did work the Hoodoo on us, because how on earth he got everything so right seemingly the first time stands as one of the seven wonders of the natural bass world. (Did I mention that he created some of the other competitors that you might try, though I believe never a credible 5 string. That was left to others to sort out.)

:D
 
I don't mean to simplify the recording/engineering/mastering process, but it's not rocket science or brain surgery. It's far from easy, but certainly not impossible.

A lot of it depends on what all is going on, how many instruments, and the characteristics of those instruments. I'd try to get in reasonable detail, but I'm "working". :p

Regardless, one must simply understand some tonal characteristics. Ever hear an upright bass and piano play the same note? How come both will naturally be distinguished? Both will occupy such different frequencies that they play well together. Take a "piano sounding" bass and track it with a...piano and you'll have trouble!

Studios don't have $$$$$$$$$$$ in equipment to only get 2 basses to sound proper.
 
I don't mean to simplify the recording/engineering/mastering process, but it's not rocket science or brain surgery. It's far from easy, but certainly not impossible.

A lot of it depends on what all is going on, how many instruments, and the characteristics of those instruments. I'd try to get in reasonable detail, but I'm "working". :p

Regardless, one must simply understand some tonal characteristics. Ever hear an upright bass and piano play the same note? How come both will naturally be distinguished? Both will occupy such different frequencies that they play well together. Take a "piano sounding" bass and track it with a...piano and you'll have trouble!

Studios don't have $$$$$$$$$$$ in equipment to only get 2 basses to sound proper.


I'm pretty sure that any decent engineer can get a good sound out of any quality bass.

How long this takes is what I'm refering to.

Fenders are know comodities to most engineers, and they are familiar enough with them where they can (or at least should be able) to dial in a good sound right quick.

Something else that they are not familiar with may take a good bit longer to get right.

When time is money, this makes a difference. I'm not suggesting everyone use a Fender, just that a Fender (know commodity) can allow you to getting down to making the music with a bare minimum of fuss, and time.


Earlier on in the thread I mentioned that same issue with vocal mics, at a show I played at The House of Blues in Boston recently.
Time is money, and no matter how good that Telefunken mic was, getting a good sound out of it quickly just wasn't happening.
Now.. in a studio you certainly have more time to get this type of stuff right, but the pricipal is exactly the same.

A sure Beta 58 is a know commodity. When they finally stopped ripping thier hair out with the Telefunken, and replaced it with a Beta 58, we were in business in less than 2 minues.

I'm sure with enough time they could have got that Telefunken to sound great, but we didn't have that kind of time.


Same can be true in the studio with a bass. Do you have the time? Studio time isn't cheap. If you don't mind spending the extra money, that's great, but personaly I want to get the music done, efficienlty as possible :) (only speaking for myself, as I don't enjoy being in the studio AT ALL) :)

I've never heard any engineer say they couldn't get a good sound out of a non Fender, it's just how much time is going to get used up dialing it in?
 
I guess I should be doubly glad we have our own mini-home studio then, because I'd not be using a Fender for the type of music I play. It'd sound - bad-. Sound techs be damned. Sometimes it just won't work.
 
Some reasons why Fender is revered:
a) Lots of dealerships and history: Fender has been around the block and is readily available around the world.

b) Known image/designs: A jazz bass is easily identifiable from 100 yeards away. Same thing for the p-bass. Both designs caught on like fire.
c) Mytstique: Fender has cultivated its image in the same way Harley Davidson did with their motorcycle. Both have a similar "The American Classic" slogan going on right now.

d) Other players'/engineers preferences: Like it or not, if you want to get the gig in some circle, a Fender is necessary.

e) Endorsees: A zillion great players are/have been in Fender's roster. This adds weight to the opinion that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 
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