• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Explain something to me about drummers

#41
Biggbass said:
Is it normal for drummers to land the snare hit very slightly before or after the beat?
Not so much that it's noticeable when listening but noticeable if the tempo grid is displayed in Pro Tools.

Just wondering.
Click to expand...



I agree with the "breathing" part, if you don't agree listen to say Bruce Hornsby. While it made it easier for his song it was painfully obvious he used a machine that was perfect.

I have a reasonably well equipped but outdated or vintage studio, its tape, 24 track. Occasionally I write things and call a drummer I've played with, I don't dare say "my drummer". Anyways, back some time ago,she showed up one day when I was trying to suss out a new drum machine.

She couldn't believe I made a great choice. She asked if she could program the machine rather than use the regular kit. I was game as I figured she could teach me quicker. She did, Karen was a Godsend in this, THANKS!

The one thing she did AFTER the part was programmed...............she "rode" the tempo control, very, very, subtle when it was being committed to tape, along with a few fingers on the faders on snare and cymbals.

The track was perfect.

The track was far too dry and mechanical when I listened to the original playback we did without her manipulations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IamGroot and murphy
#44
Joe Nerve said:
And here ya go.... I found the rhythem track, a lot more was going on in the final version, but I think this proves my point. It actually hurts me to listen to this. Trust me when I tell you that live, this song moved and grooved.

Not sure if this upload is going to work, if not I'll delete this post.
Click to expand...

I listened to the whole track. If you had asked me what was wrong with it, I would have said the drums are "off." But what you're telling me is that the drums are in fact right "on" the beat, which I never would have guessed. When I tried clapping along I could hear it right away – the snare hits were sometimes (but not always) in the wrong place. I'm betting that's what the original recording sounds like.

This is also why most techno sucks. Time is weird.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joe Nerve
#45
Whousedtoplay said:
I would look for some other explanations than your version of "matching bass and drum hits up with a click".
I don't buy that theory of "playing right on the beat" and it sounds "absolutely horrible".
Click to expand...
Maybe no absolutely horrible, but definitely not magical.
Open Up soft cell's tainted love in a daw and you can see daylight between the drum and bass hits. The bass being so far behind the beat gives the song it's feel. I bet if someone had time aligned all the beats to be dead on a click, you would have never heard of the song because it just sounded ordinary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IamGroot and Whousedtoplay
#46
Joe Nerve said:
That novice guitarist plays in Spread Eagle, which is I believe guys from UFO or something. He's amazing.

The drummer is from Milo Z, one of the best underground funk groups in NYC.

The editing is what destroyed that recording.
Click to expand...
I'd believe it. Time aligning is like autotune. It makes mediocre musicians sound good. It also makes exceptional musicians sound good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nashrakh, joebar, zoonose and 2 others
#47
Biggbass said:
Is it normal for drummers to land the snare hit very slightly before or after the beat?
Not so much that it's noticeable when listening but noticeable if the tempo grid is displayed in Pro Tools.

Just wondering.
Click to expand...
Some drummers are slightly ahead of the beat and 'push' the tune
Some drummers are slightly behind the beat and make the tune 'heavy'

Two Prime examples come to mind who are both awesome and some of my favorites:
Carl Palmer is definitely slightly ahead and he has stated so in interviews.
John Bonham is definitely slightly behind and makes things heavy or swing.


Cozy Powell is another drummer slightly behind the beat.
 
#48
J Wilson said:
IF you can find a human drummer that is perfectly, perfectly in time with Pro Tools, RUN . . . . . you're in the room with a Cyborg.

Somehow, a question about not matching a computer program somehow makes me very sad, as if all the magic is slowly being drained out of the very humanity that makes the best music a magical experience. I'm reminded every day of what a dinosaur I've become . . . . .
Click to expand...


may i present... cyborg



 
#55
Biggbass said:
Is it normal for drummers to land the snare hit very slightly before or after the beat?
Not so much that it's noticeable when listening but noticeable if the tempo grid is displayed in Pro Tools.

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

I agree with others here, if the snare is perfect every time on the beat, than all you have is a digital drum track. IME, that's missing the "musical" dynamic of live players. :)
 
#57
Two well known opposites of feel are John Bonham of Led Zeppelin and Stewart Copeland of Police. Bonzo laid it down with bombastic sound, behind the beat but with swing feel in the background, even when everything else was played dead straight. Copeland has this forward going motion in his playing that makes music fly. Try playing the simple bassline of " Walking on the moon " along the record and especially while Copeland solos.
 
#59
Biggbass said:
Is it normal for drummers to land the snare hit very slightly before or after the beat?
Not so much that it's noticeable when listening but noticeable if the tempo grid is displayed in Pro Tools.

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

As others said it's what gives music its human feel.

Some electronic music composition programs even include "humanizing" algorithms to make compositions sound less clockwork and more natural.

tl:dr - yes it's perfectly normal.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back