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Explain something to me about drummers

#2
It's normal for most of the beats not to be dead on. That's what makes the music come alive, and lining the beats up perfectly (in a DAW) is what takes life away. IME. A little before or after is normal, depending on the drummer and whether he's playing ahead of or behind the beat. If it sounds good its fine. If it sounds bad, it ain't :).
 
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#4
I play a smidgen behind to give a "deep in the pocket" feel for some songs. (Old soul tunes often fall in this category.) Other songs call for the drummer to really "drive" the tune by playing a hair ahead. (Up tempo Tom Petty tunes like "You wreck me" are a good example.) And yes, there are songs that only sound "right" when played "on time". (Wicked game by Chris Isaak is a song that comes to mind.) A good drummer should be able to adapt to whatever the song calls for.
 
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#5
IF you can find a human drummer that is perfectly, perfectly in time with Pro Tools, RUN . . . . . you're in the room with a Cyborg.

Somehow, a question about not matching a computer program somehow makes me very sad, as if all the magic is slowly being drained out of the very humanity that makes the best music a magical experience. I'm reminded every day of what a dinosaur I've become . . . . .
 
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#6
JW56789 said:
IF you can find a human drummer that is perfectly, perfectly in time with Pro Tools, RUN . . . . . you're in the room with a Cyborg.

Somehow, a question about not matching a computer program somehow makes me very sad, as if all the magic is slowly being drained out of the very humanity that makes the best music a magical experience. I'm reminded every day of what a dinosaur I've become . . . . .
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I was in a funk band a while back with a very technically knowledgable and talented young guitar player. He recorded us and insisted on matching bass and drum hits up with click. We fought like crazy... I lost, and despite the fact that we were recording with some of the best musicians I ever played with, the recordings were absolutely horrible. And it was difficult for the average listener to pinpoint why. The performances were all great, songs were good... it just sounded wrong, and unlistenable. If I can find any of those songs I might post them later.
 
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#7
Beat 2 and 4 snare hits rush or lag is a feature of some types of music. It's called playing ahead of or behind the beat. Bluesy, laid back stuff almost always has the 2 and 4 behind the beat. I once played in a blues jam with a girl drummer who was really good at being late with the snare-- I mean really late. It sounded great and really grooved. Alternately, pushing the beat is pretty popular in aggressive rock styles.

Also, random shifting around the beat is becoming a thing. Google "drunk drumming".
 
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#9
Joe Nerve said:
I was in a funk band a while back with a very technically knowledgable and talented young guitar player. He recorded us and insisted on matching bass and drum hits up with click. We fought like crazy... I lost, and despite the fact that we were recording with some of the best musicians I ever played with, the recordings were absolutely horrible. And it was difficult for the average listener to pinpoint why. The performances were all great, songs were good... it just sounded wrong, and unlistenable. If I can find any of those songs I might post them later.
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I would look for some other explanations than your version of "matching bass and drum hits up with a click".
I don't buy that theory of "playing right on the beat" and it sounds "absolutely horrible".
 
#12
bwildt said:
Beat 2 and 4 snare hits rush or lag is a feature of some types of music. It's called playing ahead of or behind the beat. Bluesy, laid back stuff almost always has the 2 and 4 behind the beat. I once played in a blues jam with a girl drummer who was really good at being late with the snare-- I mean really late. It sounded great and really grooved. Alternately, pushing the beat is pretty popular in aggressive rock styles.

Also, random shifting around the beat is becoming a thing. Google "drunk drumming".
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Drunk Drumming sounds like a convenient excuse. Also sounds fun as hell.
 
#13
Whousedtoplay said:
I would look for some other explanations than your version of "matching bass and drum hits up with a click".
I don't buy that theory of "playing right on the beat" and it sounds "absolutely horrible".
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Not sure what you're talking about, but I'm also not sure you know what I'm talking about :).

Lining drum beats and bass notes up with graphics on an audio file I promise you suck much of the life out of a performance. I'm not going to argue it, because its next to impossible to prove. Unless I find those recordings which I listened to about 5 times only and then wanted nothing to do with.
 
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#14
And here ya go.... I found the rhythem track, a lot more was going on in the final version, but I think this proves my point. It actually hurts me to listen to this. Trust me when I tell you that live, this song moved and grooved.

Not sure if this upload is going to work, if not I'll delete this post.
 

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#15
Joe Nerve said:
I was in a funk band a while back with a very technically knowledgable and talented young guitar player. He recorded us and insisted on matching bass and drum hits up with click. We fought like crazy... I lost, and despite the fact that we were recording with some of the best musicians I ever played with, the recordings were absolutely horrible. And it was difficult for the average listener to pinpoint why. The performances were all great, songs were good... it just sounded wrong, and unlistenable. If I can find any of those songs I might post them later.
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This is the world I am in right now. It is making me crazy. I am moving drum hits on a DAW at the request of another band member, but I refuse to touch my bass tracks for any reason other than gross error or volume issues. The purpose of the recording in our case is to have a demo for venues. It doesn't need to be studio sterile. But you can't argue that line with a perfectionist.
 
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#16
LBS-bass said:
This is the world I am in right now. It is making me crazy. I am moving drum hits on a DAW at the request of another band member, but I refuse to touch my bass tracks for any reason other than gross error or volume issues. The purpose of the recording in our case is to have a demo for venues. It doesn't need to be studio sterile. But you can't argue that line with a perfectionist.
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I don't know if you caught the audio clip in the post right before yours, but I fought like a MoFo over that. And as I said, lost. It caused some bad blood between the guitarist/producer and me, but my time was done in that band anyhow. It became one of those 'we're throwing you out I'm quitting anyway' deals :)... but yeah. For me, it was infuriating, because I liked the songs, AND I really wanted to have some funk tunes on recordings so I could use them for promo. Not a chance I was letting any of that stuff out at the time. This is the first time I ever posted any of it.
 
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#18
If you line up all the drum hits with the lines in your DAW, you don't really need a drummer. One good snare hit, copy and paste - you'll have the same effect - "perfectly" timed, boring robotic drumming.

You're quite literally wasting your time, and if your drummer is any good, you're also quite literally destroying what he created in the process. If there's an issue with one snare hit (yeah, that one is a bit late), then move it. But don't move them all.
 
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#19
Joe Nerve said:
And here ya go.... I found the rhythem track, a lot more was going on in the final version, but I think this proves my point. It actually hurts me to listen to this. Trust me when I tell you that live, this song moved and grooved.

Not sure if this upload is going to work, if not I'll delete this post.
Click to expand...

Wow, this is one time I can tell you, yeah Joe that kinda sucks. :laugh:
 
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#20
Joe Nerve said:
And here ya go.... I found the rhythem track, a lot more was going on in the final version, but I think this proves my point. It actually hurts me to listen to this. Trust me when I tell you that live, this song moved and grooved.

Not sure if this upload is going to work, if not I'll delete this post.
Click to expand...
Yeah sounds a little off.
I do not have a formal music education but I can lay down a groove and that sounds a little flat.
 
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