Speaking of Grateful Dead, two rigs of Phil Lesh and one from Dave Schools of Widespread Panic.
PA rigs, Meyers cabinets.
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Exploring the deeper subsonic . . .
- Thread starter fredzoTBP
- Start date
PA rigs, Meyers cabinets.
I think Bill Laswell was trying something like that when I saw him perform in a Painkiller concert. It sounded like he was paddling through mud. Not recommended.
TL;DR I did it. You can do it. Impractical.
With my Acme B2 and my TC Electronic Sub-N-Up or the Source Audio C4, I can carefully get an octave below my b string. The C4 will produce a sine wave an octave below b on my b string. It's fun!
But...
Carefully. Very carefully. At my house, not at church or the club. With the B2. Even that i have to watch for overexcursion. I DARE not try it with the GK, which unloads at about 60 hz.
So it can be done, but to make it practically loud enough would be VERY large and Very expensive.
(I did see, I think on Talkbass, a stack of 4 Acme B2s. I'd love to play it. I wouldn't want to move it.)
Most of the time, to make it intelligible, it gets used as an effect. Single notes, not a flurry, not even a long groove, it just turns into mud.
Chris Squire uses Moog Taurus pedals on And You And I on the Keys To Ascension DVD (I love that.) and on Close To The Edge on the Symphonic Yes DVD. Herbie Hancock uses it on Butterfly on the Thrust album, but it's very nearly mastered out. The last note of Te Amo on Israel Houghton's Jesus at the Center is key bass that rolls all the way down. But even these examples are fundamentals at 40 hz or above, not 20.
Billy Sheehan used to (used to to, mind you) carry a servo sub as part of his rig. But it looks to me like he rolls all of his low end (and high end too) off! So, why?
Down to 20 hz? It CAN be done. How much money you got? How's your wallet? And your back?
With my Acme B2 and my TC Electronic Sub-N-Up or the Source Audio C4, I can carefully get an octave below my b string. The C4 will produce a sine wave an octave below b on my b string. It's fun!
But...
Carefully. Very carefully. At my house, not at church or the club. With the B2. Even that i have to watch for overexcursion. I DARE not try it with the GK, which unloads at about 60 hz.
So it can be done, but to make it practically loud enough would be VERY large and Very expensive.
(I did see, I think on Talkbass, a stack of 4 Acme B2s. I'd love to play it. I wouldn't want to move it.)
Most of the time, to make it intelligible, it gets used as an effect. Single notes, not a flurry, not even a long groove, it just turns into mud.
Chris Squire uses Moog Taurus pedals on And You And I on the Keys To Ascension DVD (I love that.) and on Close To The Edge on the Symphonic Yes DVD. Herbie Hancock uses it on Butterfly on the Thrust album, but it's very nearly mastered out. The last note of Te Amo on Israel Houghton's Jesus at the Center is key bass that rolls all the way down. But even these examples are fundamentals at 40 hz or above, not 20.
Billy Sheehan used to (used to to, mind you) carry a servo sub as part of his rig. But it looks to me like he rolls all of his low end (and high end too) off! So, why?
Down to 20 hz? It CAN be done. How much money you got? How's your wallet? And your back?
Whenever this topic comes up someone always mentions that we hear more of the higher harmonics with electric bass than we hear of the fundamental. That makes me wonder...is there anything special one can do to really try to bring out the higher harmonics of really low notes like E0, or is it simply a matter of having amps and cabs that can go down to 40 Hz to cover all the higher harmonics of, in this example, that E0? (Obviously the fundamental is below 40 Hz.)
Also known as the sub destroyer. And wont track below G on your E string.
But it sounds monstrous.
pretty interesting concept, i have my bass about as low as it can go w/o an octivizer
the speaker is literally a bass bin
the point people are missing here is that you feel the bass. its a physical sensation
even if you cant get down to 10hz theres a lot of power in the low end
i had 4 15s with scoops for the low end at my club
the difference in having properly powerd subs is huge
the speaker is literally a bass bin
the point people are missing here is that you feel the bass. its a physical sensation
even if you cant get down to 10hz theres a lot of power in the low end
i had 4 15s with scoops for the low end at my club
the difference in having properly powerd subs is huge
I've heard good things about using a HPF, I'll be grabbing one soon to try at E0-F#0
Points out the need for specialty cabs and amps, as has been discussed a few posts up.
SRX828SP Specs
Frequency Range (-10dB): 29Hz - 150Hz
Frequency Response (- 3dB): 35Hz - 120Hz
Dimensions (H x W x D) 681mm x 1205mm x 574mm (26.79in x 47.42in x 22.57in)
Net Weight (each) 65.9 kg (145 lb)
Price: $2119.00
The fundamental is 20.6Hz, so the first harmonic (E1) is 41.2 Hz, meaning that it's still going to be noticeably rolled off in a system that's nominally flat to 40Hz, since "flat" doesn't mean "literally flat", it means "acceptable amount of loss", usually -3dB but sometimes more.
DBX boom box>DBX 100 Boom Box Sub Harmonic Synthesizer Manual | HiFi Engine
Split your input one to your amp other to Dbx into a sub.It only tracks below 120hz(ish) so it doesn't sound like an octave pedal.Works great with electric/acoustic guitar as well, only the low E and A string are octaved on a guitar.
A guitarist stole my last one.
Split your input one to your amp other to Dbx into a sub.It only tracks below 120hz(ish) so it doesn't sound like an octave pedal.Works great with electric/acoustic guitar as well, only the low E and A string are octaved on a guitar.
A guitarist stole my last one.
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Just DON'T do that...EVERBODY will regret it and that includes you. Notes below 30 HZ lose definition presuming your cab can actually play a 30Hz note. Outside of subwoofers very few can. It will just result a muddy, rumbling mess. And if you feed it to FOH and the sound tech has HPF capability, he'll probably filter out anything below about 40Hz.
+1 to needing a special amp, like i said i have a 15 inch ported bin
its also important to have a clean signal
but how it works is you di into the clubs mains
they should have subs down to 32hz
i think my bass ir would be a bell curve from 46hz to 300hz
but with a lo pass filter
the lack of overtones is perceived as more bass
its also important to have a clean signal
but how it works is you di into the clubs mains
they should have subs down to 32hz
i think my bass ir would be a bell curve from 46hz to 300hz
but with a lo pass filter
the lack of overtones is perceived as more bass
Not sure I understand the objection, but I don't think that's a point being missed.
The OP's idea involves potentially having a signal below 8Hz, "using a second channel/amp/cab with my signal going through an octave doubler." Without even going into the context that was intended, in general terms, what I'm reading in many of the replies is simply that there are impossible and impractical aspects to the idea. Just dealing with the "cab" and the possibility of that, not practicality, no bass cabinet can do this, no standard subwoofer can do this, servo-driven subwoofers may go down to 16Hz (so can't do it), systems than can do this are not "cabinets" but are built into rooms where they are installed (possible but not a cabinet).
The fact that "you feel the bass" isn't relevant to the question of whether you can use a second channel/amp/cab going through an octave doubler and produce subsonics down to below 8Hz.
This video is discussing a different question, but it hits on some of this in an interesting way...
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8Hz, well, make sure you have incredible damping technique so as not to induce beats down that low. And reproduction system for that is unlikely to be a speaker cone, and if it was I bet beats between two strings would rip one apart. Or make thr audience barf, then self destruct.
