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Extremely low frequency cabinets / drivers? 20hz?
- Thread starter bholder
- Start date
The 12 loaded cabs, also? I don't know the differences in box dimensions but assumed the 12 loaded cabs wouldn't achieve the same rating.
Let me reiterate.
Then I suspect you don't know how bass cabs work. The only thing driver size tells you, is the size of the driver.
Then I suspect you don't know how bass cabs work. The only thing driver size tells you, is the size of the driver.
I have an F112. It gets as low as my F115, just not as loud.
Reread the post and get my point.
BOX DIMENSIONS was the difference in question.
I see you on nearly every thread I visit and am aware of your Fearful allegience and tendency for condescension. Please refrain.
Then please get my point.
The only thing the size of the box tells you, is the size of the box.
Now if you have some understanding of the design of the box/porting, and how that plays with a specific driver, you can start to get a real picture of performance.
That isn't one spec, it is a multitude that interact.
You can put a great driver, in a huge cab, and get dog crap performance in all aspects if it is not right for the cab.
That is true for any brand.
I keep reading these threads, more out of curiosity than anything else.
Still, I do have a JBL 2242 that has specs that look like it could do the job,
in the right cabinet.
It seems it wants 10-12 cubic feet and it is currently stuck in a 361 cab,
where it only has about 1 1/2 cubic feet.
Still, I do have a JBL 2242 that has specs that look like it could do the job,
in the right cabinet.
It seems it wants 10-12 cubic feet and it is currently stuck in a 361 cab,
where it only has about 1 1/2 cubic feet.
- Nov 24, 2008
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- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I'm very much a fan of Skip's work.
My cabs have come up a couple of times in this thread, so I hope it's okay if I comment a bit.
The Hathor 1855 was mentioned, it's normally tuned to about 46 Hz, but could easily be tuned to 41 Hz by plugging one of the four ports. You'd probably want a bit of EQ, and imo a protective high-pass filter would be mandatory.
I seem to recall a low-tuned version of the original fEARful 15/6, which would be a highly capable DIY option.
Also you might check with Mike Arnopol and Leland Crooks, the technology they are using can readily be scaled to do 20 Hz at high levels.
In my opinion it's theoretically possible to do a 20-Hz vented cab, but if it's going to be portable, you may need to use a fair amount of EQ. One possible advantage of a vented cab in this scenario is, you can coordinate the tuning frequency and EQ (and mandatory protective highpass filter) to take advantage of the reduced cone motion at the tuning frequency.
My cabs have come up a couple of times in this thread, so I hope it's okay if I comment a bit.
The Hathor 1855 was mentioned, it's normally tuned to about 46 Hz, but could easily be tuned to 41 Hz by plugging one of the four ports. You'd probably want a bit of EQ, and imo a protective high-pass filter would be mandatory.
I seem to recall a low-tuned version of the original fEARful 15/6, which would be a highly capable DIY option.
Also you might check with Mike Arnopol and Leland Crooks, the technology they are using can readily be scaled to do 20 Hz at high levels.
In my opinion it's theoretically possible to do a 20-Hz vented cab, but if it's going to be portable, you may need to use a fair amount of EQ. One possible advantage of a vented cab in this scenario is, you can coordinate the tuning frequency and EQ (and mandatory protective highpass filter) to take advantage of the reduced cone motion at the tuning frequency.
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Absolutely. Horns are primarily to boost efficiency, get clearer sound, less distortion, as the cone does not necessarily have to go to Xmax, the amp doesn't have to drive up as hard to create comparable SPLs as with conventional box. Tube amp HiFi guys are really into horns as in some circles, the first watt is where it's at. There are other ways to get really low w/o a device that takes up the whole room.
Myth.
For the newcomer, there is really no practical reason to be able to produce frequencies that low at stage volumes. We're not doing the earthquake movie, or whatever, we are musicians. Frequencies that low create all sorts of room mode issues, (cancelling, piling up in corners, etc,) and at stage SPLs, frequencies that low can be nauseating. It is a fun theoretical discussion, and for home Hi-Fi or Home Theater, it can be a badge of honor to build your system in a fixed controlled environment to be able do such, but should really be avoided for music venues.
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If this is just for fun at home, how about adding a home theater powered subwoofer to what ever bass amp you are using. They are usually tuned much lower than the PA subs or any bass cab you can find. You can also use it to listen to movies.
- Oct 18, 2012
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Since normal hearing range for humans is 20 to 20,000hz and most people have trouble distinguishing anything below 35hz, there really is no need to get a cab that can achieve anything below 20hz.
- Feb 12, 2006
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When measuring the biggest Tuba, the low end rolled of very quickly starting around 50Hz and was anything but flat in its response through 100Hz. The highest sensitivity was over 1 octave higher than the typical crossover frequency. It was efficient but not where it was needed most.
In groupings of say 4 cabinets, things did improve significantly but the same can be said of bass reflex designs also.
Since i've been mixing as a major part of my living for over 20 years, working on large scale concert pa's I have to chime in and say that systems are going lower and louder than they ever have- many rigs I work on are rated down to 20hz, and there is no rule book that says feeling those notes is non- musical. Guess what, audiences eat it up, and it sounds/ feels great when properly implemented (like every other frequency reproduced in a pa).
Composers are also pushing boundaries, now that the technology that allows us to increase frequency response is readily available and proliferating. Some of the best selling forms of new music (trap, edm, hip hop) are reliant on frequencies in the lower spectrum. Think about it- a subwoofer is now standard when buying a stereo. Subharmonic enhancement circuits are found on many commercial bass amps. People love the bass drop!
So, don't write it off based on the old limitations- You will have just as many acoustical problems with your 80hz area second harmonics as you will with even lower frequencies. Have fun, expand your options.
I suppose my point is, it's already here and being implemented quite heavily, in extremely musical ways.
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- Nov 24, 2008
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The impression I got from Skip Fantry is that he's venturing into a new and different category of instrument. I don't think he sees his uber-low-tuned Quake as a replacement for a standard bass; rather, it would be used more for changing the feeling in the entire room, sort of like the lowest registers of a pipe organ.
Before meeting Skip and his Quake, I would have said that there's really no practical need for a rig that goes that low. Now... well, I'd be in your audience, eating it up!
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Yes. It's an area that has been untapped only due to technological limits. But sub tuning basses isn't really new (I have recordings from 20 years ago implementing extreme string gages and sub tunings), it's just become possible on consumer levels.
The thing I find most awesome about my current Quake and setup isn't really the extended low "reach", but in playing more in the usual frequency range, but higher up on the neck, around the 7th fret, it's really very interesting being able to get substantial fretless mwah tone one those deep notes. That is, playing E1 at the seventh fret of the A string has very similar tonal qualities to E2 played in that position on a normal bass, but the entire harmonic structure is of course shifted an octave down. Similarly going "up the neck", really gets a singing tone, but much deeper in timbre and tone than a normal fretless (of course). I love the effect and sound. Now, back to getting the extended low frequency range handled better.
