(factory restock)?

[ErnieD]

Who knows, e-x-a-c-t-l-y? The seller should know. Call the outfit & tell them you need to know what's the story with this particular amp. Exactly. Ask them to find out for you. Does it carry the same warranty as new? If you think you may want it, be persistent & insistent.

I called a online store about a B stock, price reduced Ampeg PF800. When I asked what made it B stock, rep took a few seconds then said, "looks like it's a customer return." Made it seem like his PC screen was able to tell him this info. Not sure if that's even possible. So I took a chance on this nicely priced unit, 90 warranty. The PF800 ran great for about 5 gigs; on the 6th gig it failed me by shutting down after 4 sets of music that day.

Called Ampeg warranty, they offered to look it over if I shipped it to them. But I was weary of even getting this amp serviced. So I returned it for full refund. I really liked what this amp gave me for 5 gigs, so a few weeks later I ordered a brand new PF800. Even Ampeg rep said back before, "with a new unit you get 2 yr warranty for the extra cost so that's a better deal."

Well darn, this new unit shut down twice at two different gigs on a Fri and Sat. after a couple other gigs where it ran fine. Some say was user error, maybe, not sure as I only used it with no extreme EQ or volume settings. I just wondered afterwards if they actually make any repairs to some of this gear that's sent back. I saw what I think was that B stock, PF800 back on sale just days after I returned it at like $10 more. Maybe it was a different unit??

So I went with a brand new ri-V4B from Sweetwater. It's not gotten a lot of use, maybe 5 gigs, but so far so nice. I too think it might be a good thing to order new amps for the warranty. Although I've had good luck buying other B stock, open box, etc, gear in the past. And always had good luck with used amp purchases/trades here on TB. OP, Just try to do your homework when looking.

And finally to OP, if you're just starting out, maybe a brand new combo amp would be best for you.

 

[iualum]

If someone doesn't care for things required with the warrantee (& some can definitely be on the onerous side), then there's always the choice of getting a competitor's item.

I am not sure I understand your point.

One of my recent warranty experiences concerned an Electro-harmonics B9 Organ machine.

The pedal failed. I had to provide packaging, a shipping label (on my dime) and a $12.00 check (I am assuming to cover return shipping). I was without the item for about 3 weeks.

I was not able to predict the pedal failing - nor was there an item like it offered by "competitors" when I considered making the purchase.

I am not complaining about Electro-harmonics - I was simply implying that my experience with the SVT-4, no doubt, for many reasons, was above and beyond normal expectations.

One important fact I have not specifically stated: I paid $799.00 for the B Stock amp and ended up with a fully warrantied non-B stock amp (which was normally priced at $1549.00 at that time).

All I'm saying is if someone doesn't like a company's warrantee policies enough, no one is forcing him to buy from that company.

 

[iualum]

The B-stock warranty at Loud is 90 days vs their standard 2 year warranty. A B-stock amp is sold at a reduced price because of an issue. The warranty does not extend to reasons that made it a B-stock item such as cosmetic flaws for example. The company was not obligated to replace the B-stock amp with a brand new one. Normally they would repair the amp. The customer service rep decided to offer a new amp in exchange which is more than they were required to do. Speak to another customer service rep and it could have gone the repair route.

O.K., if that's Loud's deal, then that's Loud's deal.

 

[Laughing Hyena]

I called Loud today to ask about my B-stock V-4B. The support person was very friendly and accommodating (yay!). But there wasn't much historical info about my particular amp (boo!). He said that 95% of the B-stock tube amps are deemed "B-stock" because of a tube issue ie. microphonic, broke in shipping, etc, etc. Ampeg sends a replacement unit rather than deal with a repair in those situations. As others mentioned, he did suggest to really work the amp as much as possible within that limited 90-day warranty.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I called Loud today to ask about my B-stock V-4B. The support person was very friendly and accommodating (yay!). But there wasn't much historical info about my particular amp (boo!). He said that 95% of the B-stock tube amps are deemed "B-stock" because of a tube issue ie. microphonic, broke in shipping, etc, etc. Ampeg sends a replacement unit rather than deal with a repair in those situations. As others mentioned, he did suggest to really work the amp as much as possible within that limited 90-day warranty.

I really have a problem with a 90 day warranty but this comes from a guy who is playing, at most, 3 fairly-tame gigs / month. My Bic butane lighters last more than 90 days. Given the model's history of reliability issues, I would proceed with caution, fear, trepidation, paranoia, etc.

Riis

 

[Robert B]

I never really understood the reduced warranty on a refurbished item. OK, so they are cheaper, but that's because they are used and can no longer be sold as new. The 90 day warranty tells me the company is afraid if they warranty it beyond 90 days they will get stuck with the cost of a repair. If they are not confident the product can go longer than 90 days without a repair, why would I think any differently?

 

[DieterVDW]

Wow another bunch of horror stories about PF amps...

 

[okcrum]

I bought a B stock PF500 from MF a few years ago. It's still going strong. It was returned by a TBer who thought it was broken.

 

[Laughing Hyena]

I really have a problem with a 90 day warranty but this comes from a guy who is playing, at most, 3 fairly-tame gigs / month. My Bic butane lighters last more than 90 days. Given the model's history of reliability issues, I would proceed with caution, fear, trepidation, paranoia, etc.

I agree. I also purchased the Musicians Friend "Gold Coverage" in hopes of giving me some, recourse beyond the limited 90-days. But, after reading reviews of that service online, it sounds like I may have just tossed $90 in to the fire. Oh well, whats done is done. Time will tell.

 

[ZonieBass]

I used to run a repair department for an equipment manufacturer. I'm not a tech, I was the manager. Once a unit leaves a manufactures location and it's returned for any reason, it can never be sold as new again. Even if it comes back with the original packaging unopened, it can never be sold as new again. If it's returned as a failed unit, the repair is completed and thoroughly tested (just like new ones are) before restocked. If there was a design flaw identified, an ECN (Engineering Change Notice) is issued (just like the early PF500). All units being returned for any reason are updated to the latest ECN and again, tested. Since it can't be sold as new, the warranty is reduced to allow some profit to the manufacturer.

For many years I've never bought a NEW computer. Dell and all of the major manufactures sell refurbished units at a dramatically reduced price. I always buy refurbed PCs and I've never had an issue. If the new warranty gives you more confidence in your purchase, go for it. Pay the higher price. But, typically if an electronic unit is going to fail, it will fail within the first 90 days.

There are always exceptions and each manufacturer may have different policies. Most of them don't want to have to deal with a return, so they do try to make proper repairs when an item is returned. Again, these repairs are then tested on the same testing machines as a new ones.

Just my two cents....

 

[hodgy]

I used to run a repair department for an equipment manufacturer. I'm not a tech, I was the manager. Once a unit leaves a manufactures location and it's returned for any reason, it can never be sold as new again. Even if it comes back with the original packaging unopened, it can never be sold as new again. If it's returned as a failed unit, the repair is completed and thoroughly tested (just like new ones are) before restocked. If there was a design flaw identified, an ECN (Engineering Change Notice) is issued (just like the early PF500). All units being returned for any reason are updated to the latest ECN and again, tested. Since it can't be sold as new, the warranty is reduced to allow some profit to the manufacturer.

For many years I've never bought a NEW computer. Dell and all of the major manufactures sell refurbished units at a dramatically reduced price. I always buy refurbed PCs and I've never had an issue. If the new warranty gives you more confidence in your purchase, go for it. Pay the higher price. But, typically if an electronic unit is going to fail, it will fail within the first 90 days.

There are always exceptions and each manufacturer may have different policies. Most of them don't want to have to deal with a return, so they do try to make proper repairs when an item is returned. Again, these repairs are then tested on the same testing machines as a new ones.

Just my two cents....

What he said! The manufacturer includes warranty cost in a new unit. If the unit is resold at a reduced cost, the warranty will need to be reduced accordingly. It's like science, but different.

 

[iualum]

I agree. I also purchased the Musicians Friend "Gold Coverage" in hopes of giving me some, recourse beyond the limited 90-days. But, after reading reviews of that service online, it sounds like I may have just tossed $90 in to the fire. Oh well, whats done is done. Time will tell.

Extended warrantees are money down the drain.

 

[iualum]

I used to run a repair department for an equipment manufacturer. I'm not a tech, I was the manager. Once a unit leaves a manufactures location and it's returned for any reason, it can never be sold as new again. Even if it comes back with the original packaging unopened, it can never be sold as new again. If it's returned as a failed unit, the repair is completed and thoroughly tested (just like new ones are) before restocked. If there was a design flaw identified, an ECN (Engineering Change Notice) is issued (just like the early PF500). All units being returned for any reason are updated to the latest ECN and again, tested. Since it can't be sold as new, the warranty is reduced to allow some profit to the manufacturer.

For many years I've never bought a NEW computer. Dell and all of the major manufactures sell refurbished units at a dramatically reduced price. I always buy refurbed PCs and I've never had an issue. If the new warranty gives you more confidence in your purchase, go for it. Pay the higher price. But, typically if an electronic unit is going to fail, it will fail within the first 90 days.

There are always exceptions and each manufacturer may have different policies. Most of them don't want to have to deal with a return, so they do try to make proper repairs when an item is returned. Again, these repairs are then tested on the same testing machines as a new ones.

Just my two cents....

Refurbished, open box ... Best ways to save significant bucks.