Faster..faster...FASTER

[fallon]

>Sorry Fallon, but IME that's absolutely rubbish! Speed can be learned and practiced<
Pacman,are you suggesting that every bassist in the world can learn to play fast through practice?? That is nonsense my friend.We are all unique. >taste cannot< I always thought that taste was a learning experience.What we liked,musically as teenagers is not what we would class as likeable in our latter years,indeed very few teenagers appreciate classical music but what do the vast majority of pensioners listen to? Elvis? No.
My point is that musical tastes change through listening and learning.I love fast bass playing,beit on the electric or double bass and cannot understand this culture of 'frowning'on speed,with a passion almost.Probably going into areas of psychiatry with this, but is it jealousy by individuals who simply cannot play as fast as they would like to,so they demean players who can produce the goods at great speeds whether it be slapping,tapping,using a plectrum,palm,nose feet or whatever.To conclude,I think without fear of contradiction,that to be able to play fast,graciously and with precision is a result of practise but more importantly,talent,which also applies to slow players like Aston 'Familyman' Barret.Talent cannot be bought at the shop along with your first bass guitar.Stay cool,nonetheless."Fallon".(Scotland's slap bassist) ;-)

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by fallon
[BPacman,are you suggesting that every bassist in the world can learn to play fast through practice?? That is nonsense my friend.We are all unique. [/B]

That's exactly what I'm saying - playing fast is no different from typing fast. Muscle control and speed is derived from practice. Granted, not every musician will reach the exact same speeds, but there is a pretty small margin, relatively speaking.

I will contradict you all day long on your statement that speed is more a product of talent then practice. If that were the case speed would not develop with practice. Talent can help, but practice is the only way to train the muscles to do what they need to do quickly.

 

[jazzbo]

Originally posted by Pacman
That's exactly what I'm saying - playing fast is no different from typing fast. Muscle control and speed is derived from practice. Granted, not every musician will reach the exact same speeds, but there is a pretty small margin, relatively speaking.

I will contradict you all day long on your statement that speed is more a product of talent then practice. If that were the case speed would not develop with practice. Talent can help, but practice is the only way to train the muscles to do what they need to do quickly.

I'm with Blinky.

 

[fallon]

>Muscle control and speed is derived from practice. Granted, not every musician will reach the exact same speeds, but there is a pretty small margin, relatively speaking.< Now you are starting to understand what exactly is envolved!
>I will contradict you all day long on your statement that speed is more a product of talent then practice. If that were the case speed would not develop with practice. Talent can help, but practice is the only way to train the muscles to do what they need to do quickly. < Speed is not a product of anything.Speed is talent.You will not,in the face of the evidence,"contradict me all day long".I quote facts...lets consider JS Bach.A veritable genuious without question.Bach composed music which,as history has proven was way advanced of his time.Now,if you know your history,might I recall the story about Mr.Bach and his rise to fame? At that time,prior to 'fame',JS was freelancing.He was asked to perform at a gathering of the astute;what happened thereafter is history.Natural talent,speed and ability took my man JS straight into the history books.He was hired to play organ in places reserved for the rich.
My point?....Speed,ability and talent won the day.
I like speed on any instrument,and so did JS Bach.
I will pledge to hold onto everything that constitutes speed and ability,I will NOT ever dismiss this 'proven' quality as some sort of by-product.Speed is talent.Stay cool Pacman,this is a great discussion."Fallon".

 

[JMX]

Man, your posts are really hard to read. A little formatting would help.

One thing before I hit bed: JS was a lot of things, but one thing he was not: A freelancer.

 

[Wrong Robot]

ya fallon, it would be nice if you broke up your points in paragraph form or something, perhaps used the

feature .

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by fallon
Now you are starting to understand what exactly is envolved!

I always have - speed is a product of practice. Its limits are physiological.


< Speed is not a product of anything.Speed is talent.You will not,in the face of the evidence,"contradict me all day long".I quote facts...

First of all, you didn't quote any facts. You tried to tell an anecdotal story with no point. Bach's "fame" was because of his skills as a composer, not of a player. He certainly wasn't known as a virtuoso. He was born into a family of well known musicians, to become the court organist for a duke, where he began to write. His "career" from that point was as a teacher, director and most importantly a composer.

Secondly, I think the story you're trying to tell is from the life of Mozart - and it was not his speed, but the speed at which he heard a composition and immediately played it back, re-arranged, that won notoriety.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this fallon.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Bach had MAD improvisation skills and was very well known for it.
So yes, he was a great player.
I also think that speed is all in the head, not the fingers. It still comes with practice.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Jazz Ad
Bach had MAD improvisation skills and was very well known for it.
So yes, he was a great player.

I never said he wasn't a great player - just that he became known because of his compositional skills, not his playing.

 

[Octave Doctor]

If I may, The spaces between the notes are as important as the notes themselves. (please, no one reply to say they are 'more important')

It also sounds like Masamax was trying to play a 'Rudimentry Peni' line which as every old punkster knows were more powerfull than metalica being shot out of a cannon - so good luck!

 

[fallon]

JMX. I can read my posts fine.Now,onto Bach.
He WAS a freelancer prior to being hired.Stay cool."Fallon".

 

[fallon]

>First of all, you didn't quote any facts. You tried to tell an anecdotal story with no point. Bach's "fame" was because of his skills as a composer, not of a player< Pacman,in that case,I think you missed the point.I also think that you are trying to break down the discussion to a sub-atomic level.Let's then talk about speed on the bass guitar with John Patti. in mind.Come to think about it,let's bring in Chick Chorea.Both these musicians in my very honest opinion are talented.Playing slow is not what they are famous for....although they both 'can play slow'.Let's talk about the classic Electrik band's track 'Got A Match'.The co-ordination between Chick and John was perfect 'at speed'.No small achievement but certainly not talentless because it was fast and even if many of us can practice it and play it,credit must go to the original 'talent' that created the tune in the first instance.Perhaps we should agree to disagree as you suggested...after all it is only opinion.Stay cool Pacman."Fallon".

 

[Wrong Robot]

Originally posted by falling
JMX. I can read my posts fine.

of course you can, you wrote them!

it's always easier to understand the things that you say yourself, because they come from you.

just because you can understand your posts fine, doesn't mean everyone can, it is considered respectful to be considerate of other people when posting, it's generally easier to read posts that are broken up and have some spaces, formatting...etc.

I don't particularly have any problem with your posting, but if others are having a problem, perhaps you should consider doing something about it, for their benefit AND yours.

dig?

 

[Matt Till]

Fallon, Please, seriously, use the quote feature or just stop quoting people. Your posts are just a jumbled mess. And unless you want your posts to just go ignored, you should put a little consideration into how your posts look. Yours currently look like the run on sentence from hell.

 

[fallon]

Wrong Robot and Stupidmatt....Honestly I do not know what you both are on about.When I come into the Talkbass discussion,and scroll down the messages on this particular post,it all seems fine to me...there obviously is a problem somewhere.Believe me,I am a stickler for things being in order so please advise."Fallon".

 

[Pacman]

Fallon, I'm not saying that speed means no talent. What I'm saying is speed is a product of practice. In your example of Chick Corea and John Patitucci, the talent is shown by what they play, not how fast they play it.

As far as missing your point - you tried to use Bach's ability to play fast as an example of why he's famous (or at least that's what I got from your post). Truth is he noted as a composer.

(An aside fact was that he was born into a job as court organist for a duke, as I explained earlier, he wasn't a "freelancer")

 

[fallon]

Wait a minute.Is it that you guys do not use the quote system that we are used to in the UK? i.e. I use this at the start of a quote > and this at the end < If that is so disruptive and confusing,please let me know;I will adapt a simpler quote tool.That said,stay cool."Fallon."

 

[Pacman]

Fallon, there is a link at the top right of each message that will quote so that it is clearly readable. I suggest you use it.

 

[Octave Doctor]

I use this at the start of a quote > and this at the end <

No mate - you want to use the the formatting tools along the top of the new quote box so it looks like the above!

 

[fallon]

Originally posted by Pacman
Fallon, I'm not saying that speed means no talent. What I'm saying is speed is a product of practice. In your example of Chick Corea and John Patitucci, the talent is shown by what they play, not how fast they play it.

Hi again Pacman.As you said,"the talent is shown by what they play,not how fast they play it" That is simply a play on words.'Got A Match' is fast and co-ordinated and demands skill and ability to play it.You could practice day in and day out 'til your fifty years old and still not be able to play that piece.On the other hand,somebody might well come along having played bass for a mere two years and play it without a grinace.That's talent quantified.There is a myriad examples of talent not just in our discussion but in all other areas of life;I assume I do not have to bring it to quote.In any case,what is that bass you are holding in your avatar Pacman? Stay cool."Fallon".