• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Faster..faster...FASTER

#81
I would not deny that it takes talent to play fast, but I don't think speed is the only talent there is in music. It takes talent to articulate, phrase, how to listen to and interact with your fellow bandmates so you're not trampling all over their lines, and when to just lay out. For most of us, this talent is derived from a lot of experience and practice.

A great example of this is the blues. Many of the players in this genre considered to be the cream of the crop don't play all that fast, but they can wail on one note until it almost brings you to tears. Are they any less talented? Maybe they can't play Bartok, but how many cats who can play Bartok can pull off Voodoo Chile with passion and conviction?

Sure, there are maverick virtuosos out there that come around once in awhile that can pick up an instrument and get some frightening speed pretty quickly (which would require a good deal of natural talent), but I'd be willing to bet that Chick Corea and John Pattitucci put in a great many hours at the woodshed to get to where they are now.

While talking about chops-intensive players years ago, a friend of mine told me something that's stuck with me all of these years: "After you're done being blown away by someone's chops, you have to ask yourself: How much music did they make?" That should be the ultimate goal. Speed is a valid tool, but it's not the only one.
 
#82
Originally posted by fallon
As you said,"the talent is shown by what they play,not how fast they play it" That is simply a play on words.


,what is that bass you are holding in your avatar Pacman? Stay cool."Fallon".
Click to expand...

Fallon, it's not a play on words. What I'm trying to say is that the music they play is what makes it so good - you slow "Got a Match" down by a factor of four and it will still be great! That is talent.


The bass is a German carved bass I use at work....
 
#83
Anyone can sit down and twiddle their fingers really fast .....

Left and Right hand dexterity is what speed is all about, and IMO, it is a skill that is impossible to be perfected without a ton of practice...

Charlie Parker is a perfect example.....

Charlie was once an ORDINARY sax player. When he was a young bloke he was ridiculed off stage on more than one occasion because of his cumbersome approach to the sax.

He soon got tired of being the laughing stock, so he locked himself away for the next couple of years and practiced upto 9 hours a day.

....The rest is history



So IMO, the argument "you've either got speed, or you dont" is highly fallible. Speed and dexterity of the highest degree is something that can be obtained through mountains of hardwork.

Even look at jaco.....He may have been a freakish talent, but his chops didnt just come from nowhere. When he was in his early teens its fairly well documented that he sacrificed alot of his social life just so he could sit at home and practice. He was also gigging for hours each night.

Speed is impressive, but speed without perfect left and right hand coordination sounds sh1thouse and amateur and you're better off practicing slower.

$0.02
 
#84
I just wanted to put in my two cents about Bach since I took a class on him in college. While pacman is right that he was known mainly as a composer, he was also known as an excellent harpsichordist and organist. His most famous works were organ compositions, afterall. But that doesn't make pacman wrong. He is known as a composer first, player second.

Now if fallon wanted to use Bach as an example of playing fast = natural talent, it'd be hard. Bach did have an insane amount of natural talent, but he also was an extremely hard worker. At one point in his life he would teach music, compose, and perform all in the same day, waking up before dawn and going to bed in the wee hours of night.

To most people Bach would seem like a fast player. His Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor is quite impressive. However most of us know that with practice, one can easily play at the same speeds. What made Bach's compositions difficult was the contrapuntal melodies, the fact that every hand and foot (we're talking organ here, so both hand and feet are used) were doing something seemingly different. Think of it as playing and singing, except at least four times as hard. That makes even the slowest fugues difficult for a lot of organists. Even with talent, one must practice in order to achieve that level of playing. I've never seen anybody be able to play even a slower Bach fugue without ever touching an organ in their lifetime. Natural talent needs nuturing through practice, and it always seemed to me that some of the greatest players dedicated their lives to their instruments. That means practicing rigorously.

So therein lies pacman's reasoning, fallon. It's the song, and playing it well, that's important. That's why people were telling the original poster, who thought that speed is everything, that he's wrong. For most people it's better to focus on playing the song clearly first, then eventually develop the speed. That requires starting out slow.

And I think playing a song slowly can be just as important as playing it fast. Choosing the right speed for the song is crucial. What if Pachabel's Canon in D were played at twice the speed? Or how about any of Chopin's piano pieces? They wouldn't have nearly as much impact.

I am by no means a fast player. I'm slower than a lot of people out there, and have difficulty with even the most rudimentary songs (180 bpm 8th notes even). But then again I don't practice enough. In a year since I've started bass I've only dedicated maybe 2-3 hours a week at most to practice. But that's changing. I'm starting to become more dedicated to practice and developing technique and I am starting to see remarkable changes.
 
#88
All points taken on board.Well it does seem to me that I'm in the minority.Brousing in the bassists forum I keep reading posts about bassists who are famed for 'speed'.I am confused.Flea,Mark King are current in the discussions.Talentless androids? I'm confused by the way.That said,website coming soon...much of Fallon's music will be featured.Stay cool nonetheless."Fallon".
 
#91
Originally posted by lowerclef
Sure, Fallon. Many (if not most) famous bassists possess speed. But that is not the only thing that makes them talented, that's all.
Click to expand...



EXACTLY!!! This is what everyone is trying to pound into your head. Mark King got his speed through GOOD TECHNIQUE!! Speed come from good technique. In order to get fast and sound good, you cannot sit down and say "I'm going to make my fingers go as fast as possible" you need to get solid, play right, speed come from good technique, take your vitamins, say your prayers, drink your milk, speed come from good technique, practice with a metronome, lay off crack, speed come from good technique, speed come from good technique.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back