Fat "ambient soul" Low-end

[WarBeer]

I'm a guitar player that really fell in love with the bass after getting into Zero 7 and Robin Malarkey. It feels like "ambient soul" to me. Rob's low-end is really heavy and low...but it's never murky. I know he was using those Ashdown amps at some point. (don't know if in Zero 7) I've got one a Fender Rumble 200. It's not bad for what it is...but, I'm not even in that ballpark...lol.

So, to go after a tone like Rob/Z7...just a better amp...a type of amp...octave pedal? I'm using a Fender P...it still has the stock pickups. I think it's a pretty resonant bass...maybe could use warmer PUs as well. Any suggestions on how I might go about working towards a sound like that?

 

[4Mal]

Honestly, what I'm hearing sounds like production values. Crafted frequency slotting in the low end. Maybe a gate on the kick controlling a comp on the bass channel. They got good separation. I need to listen to Zero 7 more though ... The youtube official videos I listened to were appealing...

Off the top of my head, a fearful cab to provide deep but smooth lows and careful consideration as to your EQ and the kick is where I would start... if your amp is carrying the room. If it is a matter of FOH, a good clear di - on a PBass, not much better than a J48 or Countryman Type 85...

Pickups...
for neo soul I want either my Marco N1 P with Marco's amazing pickup or my Franken P mutt with a Lull spec'ed Fralin. That pickup is modeled after 62 and 64 P Basses that Mike had in for repair. It is a wonderful pickup for that R&B vibe.

 

[WarBeer]

Honestly, what I'm hearing sounds like production values. Crafted frequency slotting in the low end. Maybe a gate on the kick controlling a comp on the bass channel. They got good separation. I need to listen to Zero 7 more though ... The youtube official videos I listened to were appealing...

Off the top of my head, a fearful cab to provide deep but smooth lows and careful consideration as to your EQ and the kick is where I would start... if your amp is carrying the room. If it is a matter of FOH, a good clear di - on a PBass, not much better than a J48 or Countryman Type 85...

Pickups...
for neo soul I want either my Marco N1 P with Marco's amazing pickup or my Franken P mutt with a Lull spec'ed Fralin. That pickup is modeled after 62 and 64 P Basses that Mike had in for repair. It is a wonderful pickup for that R&B vibe.

Thanks for the info 4Mal! When approaching this modern-on-classic sound...what are your thoughts on All-Tube vs Tube-Pre vs Complete SS? Rob did just confirm to me that he used those Ashdowns. I know that model has a Tube-pre...just wondering if you think that is an integral part or not?

Rob's live sound here is pretty darn good (all things considered)...


The tone here on "Somersault" is probably what hooked me on him. (starting @ 4:00)

 

[Aussie Player]

Firstly, thank you for posting this. What a class act. Hadn't heard of them prior to this post.
The thing that stood out to me in the bass tone was 2 things.
1. Plucking hand position. You already know that Sean Hurley and Geezer Butler are very favored on this site and they both share a trait with this bass player in that they tend to pluck just in front of the pick up where the string rings longer and with a little more sustain. This makes a big difference when dropping to an open E which is done in his playing style and note selection.
2. How you pluck, some bass player roll their finger over the string timed to release the sting on the note for timing purposes. When you learn to short pluck, meaning using just the actual finger tip to roll over the edge of the string rather than placing the finger inside the strings it tends to cut the note short and allow the string to ring cleaner. This generated a cleaner note definition and is an art form particularly when doing a run where several noted need to flow and be consistent in touch to make the run smooth and uniform in note volume and tone.
3. If there is a thing thing I can offer, it is gentle ticking of the string without any aggression which is common to bass players. The amp must be a touch louder so volume is adequate which allows you to play with a softer touch and then instead of you plucking hard to get the sustain, you let the amp work for you instead.

I like the tone of the first song "Home" better than the 2nd track because it is live and he is letting the amp contribute to the tone. The second track is studio and he may be using an amp or going direct but the end result is that an amp is not as strong an influence on the tone which is why you hear more treble at the 4.00 mark. The first track is smooth to the ear, the second has fluctuation in the tone and not the smoothness and evenness in tone heard on "Home".

Overall I hear you and understand your interest. Rob is a superb player and very classy. Love it.
Thank You.

 

[WarBeer]

@ Aussie Player...I'm glad you dug it! As far as the studio-tone...probably some dope compressor bringing out all that sparkle and detail. Though the studio tone and the live tone are drastically different, I really do appreciate them both. I'm really a guitar-player/writer that was playing a small amount of bass for my writing needs, but after I heard that outro on Somersault...I totally was hooked on bass!...lol. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge; I've definitely been experimenting with different techniques. As mentioned in a previous post of mine, I have a really long nail bed...and pretty thin fingers, which can lend themselves to a fairly prominent "pop". I've been working on adjusting this. I'm can be very aggressive and that usually doesn't help any.

 

[Aussie Player]

@ Aussie Player...I'm glad you dug it! As far as the studio-tone...probably some dope compressor bringing out all that sparkle and detail. Though the studio tone and the live tone are drastically different, I really do appreciate them both. I'm really a guitar-player/writer that was playing a small amount of bass for my writing needs, but after I heard that outro on Somersault...I totally was hooked on bass!...lol. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge; I've definitely been experimenting with different techniques. As mentioned in a previous post of mine, I have a really long nail bed...and pretty thin fingers, which can lend themselves to a fairly prominent "pop". I've been working on adjusting this. I'm can be very aggressive and that usually doesn't help any.

If you can see areas in your playing technique that you don't like, you are already ahead of those that already know everything. Self challenge is what gains the most improvement.

 

[Engle]

I recently started learning six Zero7 songs (including Home and Somersault) for a new band I’m in. The bass playing is great, but I don’t think there is anything special about the gear.

Are you using flatwounds?

As others have mentioned, it’s technique and most decent quality equipment will get you there.

 

[Aussie Player]

I recently started learning six Zero7 songs (including Home and Somersault) for a new band I’m in. The bass playing is great, but I don’t think there is anything special about the gear.

Are you using flatwounds?

As others have mentioned, it’s technique and most decent quality equipment will get you there.

Not sure I agree........Have played a lot of P basses over the last half century and never heard one sound like that with the exception of a couple heavily engineered such as Sean Hurley who can get a similar tone. I recommend you listen with headphones on and there is a nice growl to his sound that is not typical P sound or I would have played them exclusively.

 

[Aussie Player]

@ Aussie Player...I'm glad you dug it! As far as the studio-tone...probably some dope compressor bringing out all that sparkle and detail. Though the studio tone and the live tone are drastically different, I really do appreciate them both. I'm really a guitar-player/writer that was playing a small amount of bass for my writing needs, but after I heard that outro on Somersault...I totally was hooked on bass!...lol. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge; I've definitely been experimenting with different techniques. As mentioned in a previous post of mine, I have a really long nail bed...and pretty thin fingers, which can lend themselves to a fairly prominent "pop". I've been working on adjusting this. I'm can be very aggressive and that usually doesn't help any.

Giving this some more listens and also looking at the longer concert on u tube I think Rob is using a plectrum on somersault compared to playing with fingers on Home as we can see. Rob plays both methods.

 

[WarBeer]

Giving this some more listens and also looking at the longer concert on u tube I think Rob is using a plectrum on somersault compared to playing with fingers on Home as we can see. Rob plays both methods.

What makes you think that Rob's using a plectrum on Somersault?

 

[WarBeer]

The bass playing is great, but I don’t think there is anything special about the gear. As others have mentioned, it’s technique and most decent quality equipment will get you there.

I've been going down the rabbit hole of class A/B vs D. On "YouTube" video comparisons, I can definitely hear a difference. "To me"...it sounds like the "Q" around notes are broader (fatter) with the A/B. I can hear the thickness/weight. Now, does that transfer live?...in my living room? Would the comparison sound different through other cabinets? Is it moot in recording? These are the questions I have...lol. I really don't want a 33 lbs amp head...but I also don't want to spend the same kind of $$ on something that falls short. In the end, I'm sure that my own technique and ear are going to be far more impactful than any piece of gear I can buy.

Also, I'm thinking that my amp -Rumble 200-, tone aside, probably is suffering a bit from just being underpowered. I have to have it around 60% (which is about its max..and even then it starts to get farty) to start blooming and filling up my environment. I don't "need" a bunch of power...but wonder if something with more authority would deliver a more impactful tone?

 

[Aussie Player]

What makes you think that Rob's using a plectrum on Somersault?

You can hear it. Especially when he plays the triplet notes.

 

[Aussie Player]

I've been going down the rabbit hole of class A/B vs D. On "YouTube" video comparisons, I can definitely hear a difference. "To me"...it sounds like the "Q" around notes are broader (fatter) with the A/B. I can hear the thickness/weight. Now, does that transfer live?...in my living room? Would the comparison sound different through other cabinets? Is it moot in recording? These are the questions I have...lol. I really don't want a 33 lbs amp head...but I also don't want to spend the same kind of $$ on something that falls short. In the end, I'm sure that my own technique and ear are going to be far more impactful than any piece of gear I can buy.

Also, I'm thinking that my amp -Rumble 200-, tone aside, probably is suffering a bit from just being underpowered. I have to have it around 60% (which is about its max..and even then it starts to get farty) to start blooming and filling up my environment. I don't "need" a bunch of power...but wonder if something with more authority would deliver a more impactful tone?

Se the tones on the amp to flat and if you make changes, makes small ones.
Use the bass tone to modify until you loose the amount of treble you think is too much then tweak the amp, maybe set the bass to 1PM and the treble to 11AM.

 

[Engle]

Not sure I agree........Have played a lot of P basses over the last half century and never heard one sound like that with the exception of a couple heavily engineered such as Sean Hurley who can get a similar tone. I recommend you listen with headphones on and there is a nice growl to his sound that is not typical P sound or I would have played them exclusively.

I didn’t say I heard a Pbass , but I do hear flatwounds on some of this stuff.
My point was I don’t think there is one particular bass or amp needed to get those sounds.
Watching the live footage, I’ve seen a number of different basses.

 

[Engle]

I've been going down the rabbit hole of class A/B vs D. On "YouTube" video comparisons, I can definitely hear a difference. "To me"...it sounds like the "Q" around notes are broader (fatter) with the A/B. I can hear the thickness/weight. Now, does that transfer live?...in my living room? Would the comparison sound different through other cabinets? Is it moot in recording? These are the questions I have...lol. I really don't want a 33 lbs amp head...but I also don't want to spend the same kind of $$ on something that falls short. In the end, I'm sure that my own technique and ear are going to be far more impactful than any piece of gear I can buy.

Also, I'm thinking that my amp -Rumble 200-, tone aside, probably is suffering a bit from just being underpowered. I have to have it around 60% (which is about its max..and even then it starts to get farty) to start blooming and filling up my environment. I don't "need" a bunch of power...but wonder if something with more authority would deliver a more impactful tone?

Imo you hit the nail on the head:
In the end, I'm sure that my own technique and ear are going to be far more impactful than any piece of gear I can buy.

I don’t believe you can judge how a particular amp compares to another from YouTube videos. There are too many variables.

 

[two fingers]

I'm a guitar player that really fell in love with the bass after getting into Zero 7 and Robin Malarkey. It feels like "ambient soul" to me. Rob's low-end is really heavy and low...but it's never murky. I know he was using those Ashdown amps at some point. (don't know if in Zero 7) I've got one a Fender Rumble 200. It's not bad for what it is...but, I'm not even in that ballpark...lol.

So, to go after a tone like Rob/Z7...just a better amp...a type of amp...octave pedal? I'm using a Fender P...it still has the stock pickups. I think it's a pretty resonant bass...maybe could use warmer PUs as well. Any suggestions on how I might go about working towards a sound like that?

Here the gear page on his official website. I would start there.

Gear - Robin Mullarkey

Or, here's the contact info on the same site. Just ask the dude.

Contact - Robin Mullarkey

That said, his tone strikes me as just a well-played P bass, good plucking technique just inside the pickup, a smooth compressor on the bass, EQed more "round" (which your Fender Rumble should be able to cop no problem). Nutn more to it than that.

 

[Engle]

Here the gear page on his official website. I would start there.

Gear - Robin Mullarkey

Or, here's the contact info on the same site. Just ask the dude.

Contact - Robin Mullarkey

That said, his tone strikes me as just a well-played P bass, good plucking technique just inside the pickup, a smooth compressor on the bass, EQed more "round" (which your Fender Rumble should be able to cop no problem). Nutn more to it than that.

Looked at that gear page - makes sense. Pretty sure I saw that Vox used live for Somersault.

I don’t think the bass tones are hard to get. The synth sounds. Those are the challenge!