whoa you guys are a bit above my head in terms of the levels of different frequencies, but maybe a better question is, is it better to get a two 15/6 either bi amped or in stereo or 1515/66 in mono. and seriously, how many times do you actually need all of the power that the 1515/66 offers?
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fEARful cabs, your thoughts, reviews?
- Thread starter ArmoredAngels
- Start date
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,348
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- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Well...I've never been sad about having my 15/6+15sub on stage.
I do have a set of attenuator knobs on my amp if needed. Bi-amping? If you're not terribly technically minded, not comfortable about figuring out crossover points, slopes, etc. I'd probably skip it. My 15/6 has a switch that attenuates the mid by about 3db when engaged, ostensibly so that if I use that cab alone. I rarely do. Although I sometimes DO run both cabs with the mid down by 3db, if its the sound in the room that I like (like a reflective room with lots of mid bouncing around...or I just turn the treble and bass knobs on my bass and amp.
I haven't had much problem being heard. I shall be looking forward again to our annual performance for a benefit for Kenyan and Ghanan school development next week...it's in a gym...and will not have the bass in the PA. I'll still be heard just fine.
I wouldnt run two 15/6 cabs in stereo, but in parallel. I also wouldnt bi amp them, but run them full range. I know I'm fussing over your semantics, but now is the time to develop good communication habits over gear.
Bi-amping involves having an external cross over and separate power amps for low frequency and high frequency. A fEARful has an internal cross over so you can just send it a full range signal.
Stereo amplification implies that you are running each cab off of a separate power amp. With 2 8 Ohm cabs you shouldnt have to worry about that.
As far as the difference between a 15/6 and a 1515/66 and how often do I use the real capacity of the 1515/66? In all truth a 15/6 is probably more cab than anyone ever needs. I like the feeling of having a bigger cab at my back even at low volumes, so I went with the 66. Last night we were practicing on stage in a performance hall. I let my post gain slide to about noon and it was loud. Like cant hear my drummer yell at me loud. My guitarist remarked that I sounded incredibly even through out the room as he walked around.
If you are on the fence, may I suggest you get a 15/6 to start. If you decide you love the way it sounds a reverse baffle 15/6 would stack nicely. If its close to what you want but you only need more volume and lows, add a 15sub. If its all you need, then great.
The bonus to having two 15/6's is that for a little more weight/cost you have two complete full range cabs.
The only time I've gigged my 1515/66 so far I got comments like "Your bass is punishing my ears!?!" and had to turn it down a lot
I play small to medium bars and never push my LDS 15-6 much. The closest I have ever come to opening it up was a large hotel ballroom and I still had plenty of headroom remaining. YMMV.
I don't 'think' the 15/6 or 1515/66 are setup with individual input jacks for bi-amping. And if you wanted to run two 15/6s or 1515/66s I'd slave the second cab with a second pwr amp.
It would be as easy as leaving the cross over out and putting a direct jack to the LF woofer and one to the mid driver.
I dont see a problem running two 15/6's full range off the same power amp though.
I’m very new to speaker cabinet designing (just learning) so I could be wrong - but, I don’t think greenboy originally designed the 2 and 3 way fearful’s with bi-amping in mind (not that it can’t be done) but there really is no need because the 2 and 3 way design with the built in crossover gives the same results (bi or tri) but with a single amp instead of needing multi-amps - plus the built in crossover should already be fixed for max performance.
EDIT: ok I'm done editing - I'm running on slow today.
EDIT: ok I'm done editing - I'm running on slow today.
- Feb 9, 2012
- 349
- 11
- Disclosures
- Authorized Builder: fEARful bass, greenboy designs, Bill Fitzmaurice
In case anyone is wondering about biamping a fEARful:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It's definitely not necessary because the passive components will do the job just fine. Running full range also helps get the most out of your poweramp. Biamping will require more amp to do the same job. Much better to stick to the standard plans and use EQ with good controls. You would be amazed how much you can do with EQ if you have a unit that is flexible.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It's definitely not necessary because the passive components will do the job just fine. Running full range also helps get the most out of your poweramp. Biamping will require more amp to do the same job. Much better to stick to the standard plans and use EQ with good controls. You would be amazed how much you can do with EQ if you have a unit that is flexible.
- Dec 28, 2010
- 357
- 3
- Disclosures
- Art of Noise Audio, fEARful builder
Bi amping would be considered an advanced fearful technique, I think this discussion is more geared towards basic (not Bassic™ techniques. If you know what you are doing, a bi amped 15/6 or 1515/66 would be really powerful and tweakable with a power amp that has strong dsp, like the Crown xti for instance.
The passive crossovers do a great job, but eliminating them could save some weight, cost, and complexity to a build.
As for the OP's questions. The 15/6 is more than enough for 90% of bassists in 90% of gigs. A 15/6 is kinda like a wrecking ball and a 1515/66 is more like a ton of dynamite. Both are going to destroy.
Robby
techniques. If you know what you are doing, a bi amped 15/6 or 1515/66 would be really powerful and tweakable with a power amp that has strong dsp, like the Crown xti for instance. The passive crossovers do a great job, but eliminating them could save some weight, cost, and complexity to a build.
As for the OP's questions. The 15/6 is more than enough for 90% of bassists in 90% of gigs. A 15/6 is kinda like a wrecking ball and a 1515/66 is more like a ton of dynamite. Both are going to destroy.
Robby
Hey Ken, I almost always played 10's but I also have a Avatar TB153. This isn't apples to apples but being a J bass with rounds player I get what your saying about a 3 way cab with the 3015LF. From you clips I've seen I'd say we're of a similar school tone wise (though I roll the tone off a bit more play passive basses), or at least in the same ballpark.
Anyway I really didn't like my TB153 until I just got my Shuttlemax 12.2 and then it really came alive.....but not without some serious eq'ing (keep in mind I've used one or another of the Demeter VTBP-201(S) for the last 18 years).
However, as powerful and clean as it is it doesn't do all those weird subtle things in the high end and the same growl/grind in the low mids. Question is; are you gonna hear that stuff in the mix anyway?
It seems strange to have to eq in what I naturally like about my 10's and in certain ways I feel like my tone is now like a heavy, blunt club versus a ..... well I don't know, a lighter weight club with some sharp edges on it! LOL! Okay bad analogy..... I do like the fact that at volumes where my 10's tell me I better cut some bass or volume the TB153 just keep things tight. I feel as though I'm giving up some of my tone and the tone in my hands but I'm still in the stages of figuring out if the advantages of this cab are worth it or not.
Hmm, ok.
EDIT: I meant bi-amping them with an external crossover - but, on second thought you’re probably right? Thanks
+1 to Robby
looking at the fearful bi-amp diagram in the link Don posted above [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] the built in passive crossover is bypassed when b-amped therefore it should be noted that if someone building/buying a 2 or 3 way fearful with the intent of bi-amping they have no need to purchase the built in passive crossover.
looking at the fearful bi-amp diagram in the link Don posted above [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] the built in passive crossover is bypassed when b-amped therefore it should be noted that if someone building/buying a 2 or 3 way fearful with the intent of bi-amping they have no need to purchase the built in passive crossover.
- Feb 9, 2012
- 349
- 11
- Disclosures
- Authorized Builder: fEARful bass, greenboy designs, Bill Fitzmaurice
Except...
greenboy will be the first person to discourage you from biamping. As many people who have experience with biamping fEARfuls have already stated, most (not all, but most) prefer to use the passive xover.
greenboy will be the first person to discourage you from biamping. As many people who have experience with biamping fEARfuls have already stated, most (not all, but most) prefer to use the passive xover.
PS - Ken, I loved your Youtube clips bro and wish you'd put them back up - btw, you're good bassist too - love your style bro. 
Well Don, then personally I'd agree with greenboy on that too. If I liked/used a 2 or 3 way fearful cab, I'd use greenboy's crossover and drive the cab with one amp.
The thing to keep in mind throughout all these discussions is that greenboy originally designed the fEARful 15/6 to suit his personal needs and goals. He wanted a cab that could faithfully reproduce the sound of the models in his V-Bass without needing to drag around big heavy PA cabs for his stage sound.
Because he was designing the perfect cab for himself, he took into account more than just the sound. Things like how light he could make it without sacrificing structual integrity. Where to place the handles so it would be easy to lift and move. How well it could be heard by someone not standing directly in front of it. And so on.
As his design progressed, he unselfishly posted the plans, etc. here on TB to share with other DIY types. He kept everyone updated as refinements were made and gave consideration to suggestions made by others. Over time, he designed smaller and larger versions to meet other people's needs/goals. Hence, the 12/6, the dual woofer designs, and the wider/sqatter 15/6 Tube.
To fully understand the history and developement of these cabs, along with the goals greenboy was trying acheive, read the first few fEARful threads.
My hat is off to the early adoptors and contributors who went through the initial DIY trials, tribulations, pitfalls and customizations that led to the current incarnation of these cabs. Their work also led to people now being able to buy kits and completed cabs.
Because he was designing the perfect cab for himself, he took into account more than just the sound. Things like how light he could make it without sacrificing structual integrity. Where to place the handles so it would be easy to lift and move. How well it could be heard by someone not standing directly in front of it. And so on.
As his design progressed, he unselfishly posted the plans, etc. here on TB to share with other DIY types. He kept everyone updated as refinements were made and gave consideration to suggestions made by others. Over time, he designed smaller and larger versions to meet other people's needs/goals. Hence, the 12/6, the dual woofer designs, and the wider/sqatter 15/6 Tube.
To fully understand the history and developement of these cabs, along with the goals greenboy was trying acheive, read the first few fEARful threads.
My hat is off to the early adoptors and contributors who went through the initial DIY trials, tribulations, pitfalls and customizations that led to the current incarnation of these cabs. Their work also led to people now being able to buy kits and completed cabs.
