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fEARful part 13: the bad luck's done, son

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I just spent a few days with the new TC RH750. Today I'll be testing Zzounds return service and their 30 day satisfaction period. My pretty mail order bride is going back.

I play Dingwall basses tuned down a half step. That's not as extreme as the knucklehead, but the B strings run 37". Getting all of that low end was what sent me down the fEarful road in the first place. My GK 1001 with a 15/6 or a stacked 15/6 and 12/6 cube can make your vision blur at the low end. Clear defined notes all the way down the B string. I could even get the low A if I want.

So when the TC started rolling off power below E, the party came to a screeching halt.

Back to the drawing board on the amp shopping project.

There were a number of things I really liked about the TC, but alas, we have irreconcilable differences. The thing doesn't do clean either.

I got to try knucklehead at GTG. That's a very cool idea.
 
Anyone using a Knuckle Quake or other long scale bass with a fEARful?

I used a 42 inch scale bass with my 12/6 all the time...;)

We did put one of Skip's basses through my 15/15/6/1 rig at the same GTG singlemalt mentioned, biamped with 900 watts to the woofs and 550 to the top box. Then I hooked up the club PA, with 4 kilowatts to the subs, just 'cause I could. The ductwork over there has never been the same, no joke.
 
How did it perform?

Hey Mr Pickles,

So well that I continued to use that combination gladly - it was better than anything else short of bi-amping a rather bulky, heavy SR subwoofer with various sizes of conventional cabs stacked on top of it.

The Quakes and other exceptional instruments for extreme low-tuning like the BassLab L-Bow actually were part of the fEARful development process.
 
n00b to the fearful world here, so I apologize for any questions that have been covered in the last 12,000+ posts :)

I'm recovering from an injury that makes heavy lifting no longer an option. In my search for light and loud, fearful has come up a few times. After reading some of the posts and greenboy's FAQ section and looking at speaker hardware.com and Art of Noise's website I'm considering a few options and I think I have reached a point where I could use some advice.

My current rig is a Dingwall ABZ 5, a Mesa M6 head, and a Mesa PH 115. I also just picked up an Ashdown Little Bastard 30w head (still have a couple of weeks to return it, but leaning toward keeping it). I also have a Warwick $$ Corvette 4 string.

Here are the issues I'm rolling around in my head:

1. Since the cabs are all intended to have the same tone, regardless of size, I'd assume the only difference is that bigger cabs are louder. Are there any other characteristics that change?

2. Right now I'm considering the 12/6, 12/6 cube, or the 15/6. Any suggestions on why to pick one over the other as a first cab, which I may add to later?

3. The cabs are famously loud for their size. I'm planning to try out the LB 30w head with a band setting next week, using the rehearsal space 410 back line cab. Assuming it holds up, would it be safe to assume that one of the cabs I mentioned might work just as well, in terms of being loud enough, or will 2 be more realistic?

4. The LB 30w head only has 1/4" jacks, not speakons. I'm assuming that since my M6 head has outputs that are combo 1/4 and speakons that I'd be able to get my hands on some of the combo jacks for a build, right?

5. Any rough estimates of the weight difference between the 12/6 and the 15/6 cabs?

That is about it for now. I'm currently considering the Art of Noise cabs for max weight saving. However I have an uncle with the tools and skills to build one up, so I might have to go for the family discount project.

Thanks in advance.
 
You are correct, the 15/6 and the 12/6 present the same tonal profile, and should sound the same, minus some volume. I use a 15/6 or a 15/6+15sub rig, and I'm guessing you probably would want to go with the 12/6 and either a duplicate cab or the 12sub with it. The 12/6 can be as loud or louder than many a 4x10, depending on which one you're talking about.

The real hitch though, is that since a 4x10 has more speaker area, it will probably be more sensitive than a 12/6 given the exact same wattage. One of the great benefits of both of these designs is that while they sound good with low wattage, you CAN give them way more power than most cabs of similar size and they're happy to get louder and stay just as clean and clear and low. These days with so many great mid-to-high powered amps in the sub-10 pound range, it means you CAN keep small and light and loud.
 
If you go back a few pages in this thread, there is a guy who built a 15/6 out of Italian Poplar with a final weight of 35LBS. That's what I would do if weight is a top priority.

But then again building a 12/6 out of Italian Poplar would be lighter... by how much I dont know. The 12/6 and 12/sub combination is probably your best bet in terms of weight / performance ratio. For small to medium gigs you could easily get away with a 12/6 alone. Anything bigger add the 12sub. I would bet that those two would be loud enough for the vast majority of bands.
 
1. no, designed that way.
2. just picked based on how silly you want to get. i went with 2 15/6s from the start. a single 12/6 is awesome compared to anything else on the market.
3. i'd definitely want more than one cab with a 30w head
4. you can buy combo speakon / 1/4" jacks.
5. pretty much just the difference in wood weight, whatever that is.
 
Thanks for the quick and thoughtful replies.

These days, loud isn't my goal, just loud-enough :)
I bought the LB 30 on a whim and I'm trying to figure out if it is realistic to keep it and plan to use it or if I'm setting myself up for disappointment.

With the 12/6, what reason would there be for going with the regular vs. The cube? Is one easier to pair up with a 12 sub when stacking?
 
Thanks for the quick and thoughtful reply.

These days, loud isn't my goal, just loud-enough :)
I bought the LB 30 on a whim and I'm trying to figure out if it is realistic to keep it and plan to use it or if I'm setting myself up for disappointment.

With the 12/6, what reason would there be for going with the regular vs. The cube? Is one easier to pair up with a 12 sub when stacking?

The cube was designed to be wider for using wider amp heads...but to really answer your question in relation to stacking, head over to the fEARful website and look at the actual dimensions, and there's a pretty good illustration of all the cabs together that can give you a good idea.

I personally would go with the taller cab, bringing the mid closer to your ear level.
 
If you want to stack with a 15/6 or 15sub, go with the 12/6 cube. Otherwise the standard 12/6 looks nicer (just like the 15/6s little brother) and as already stated gets the mid closer to ear level. It is, however, less wide than a standard 19" rack. For my WIP 12/6 I'll probably build a stand to elevate it some and integrate a rack in the stand. Problem solved.
 
I have a 12/6/1 and a 15/6tube built from inexpensive-but-light-and-strong-enough 1/2" arauco ply from Lowes. They actually fit well together as a stack (12/6/1 laying sideways on top of the 15/6tube are a width match).

I might be wrong (never weighed them), but I believe the 12/6/1 actually weighs a bit more than the 15/6 (the additional tweeter components in the 12/6/1 weigh more than the additional wood in the 15/6). Regardless, the 12/6/1 is much easier to carry as the smaller, narrower profile makes it a less cumbersome box to manipulate.

Getting to my point: Dimensions of the box are an important factor in lift-ability, it's not just a weight issue. For example, if you go with a 12/6 cube you're essentially carrying the same WIDTH of a standard 15/6 (additional size and weight is all in the height.)

With that in mind, if I was in your situation (back issues), I'd do a standard 12/6.. ... with the intention of eventually adding a 12sub or another 12/6.

(ps: A single 12/6 is quite low to the ground .. when I'm standing less than 4' from the rig during rehearsal, I tilt it back a bit to fire toward my head and get better on-axis monitoring.. There's a reason why studio monitors are at ear-level.. why deny the same principle to your instrument monitor?)
 
I wouldn't use the Speakon combo jacks on a cab. Too much potential for air leakage.
(Or can you use the little "plugs" that Leland sells without interfering with the Speakon plug?)

Something to consider about a 12/6 + 12/Sub stack:
Although the 12/sub is smaller and lighter, the 12/6 it's mated with needs to have the more expensive mid driver, Xover and pad. It's cheaper to build a pair of 12/6 (Alpha) cabs with the added benefit of having two stand alone cabs.
 
I wouldn't use the Speakon combo jacks on a cab. Too much potential for air leakage.
(Or can you use the little "plugs" that Leland sells without interfering with the Speakon plug?)

OR: just bust out the old soldering iron and build a new / alter an existing speaker cable to: male Speakon <-> male 1/4" jack. I did this the other night, literally 5 minutes before rehearsal (I needed to use the 12/6/1 as a PA cab).
 
I'd go with the 15/6. It's about the same price, not much heavier, and you should be able to get more volume with a low-wattage amp like the LB. Also it will take more power if you ever need to get sinfully loud.

If you have an injury, you probably should get a cart and not try much lifting anyway, so the extra weight/size shouldn't matter too much except to get it in and out of the car. I recommend the kart-a-bag carts, around 10 pounds, great on stairs, and you can put up to 300 pounds on them.

And I agree about just using standard Speakons and making or buying a Speakon to 1/4" cable.
 
Something to consider about a 12/6 + 12/Sub stack:
Although the 12/sub is smaller and lighter, the 12/6 it's mated with needs to have the more expensive mid driver, Xover and pad. It's cheaper to build a pair of 12/6 (Alpha) cabs with the added benefit of having two stand alone cabs.

Of course if you're counting calories.. er, weight, the pricier Alphalite at 3lb's (neo version) weighs less than standard 5lb Alpha.. (18 sound is a just a bit more $, weighs 2.75lbs, but requires lpad components)
 
Some great advice. Thanks.

I had given consideration to the size being a transportation factor, not just the weight. I also don't plan to do any long walks with anything I get, but I do have the issue of getting down the 3 steps at my porch, and hoisting into the trunk of my xB, neither of which can be helped by a cart. Luckily I had enough strength to one-hand a 35lb cab down my satirs, so I think a 12/6 or maybe even a 15/6 would be realistic.

I hadn't even thought of a 1/4 to speakon cable as an option. Brilliant!

The guess work is if the 30w LB will be a keeper, and if it would get loud enough with a 15/6. If not, I would guess that a 12/6 with a 12 sub would be the way to roll. If I'm going to need more than one cab anyway, two 15's of any combo seems overkill.
 
I'm moving gear around and loading up for tonight's gig, so I put everything on the scale:

12/6 cube in 1/2 baltic birch with the Alpha 6A mid: 47 lb. I was surprised that it was that much, before I loaded the drivers and crossover, I figured it would come out under 40. I can't say enough good things about this cab. It was by far the cheapest to build with the less expensive Alpha. It fits in the trunk of the Corolla, with the amp rack and a bass a gig bag. I put two scoop handles on it, so it's comfortable to carry with two hands, and I can grab it with one. It has gone to every gig and practice since I finished it. It stacks perfectly on the 15/6/1 and the two together are stunning.

I try to put the 12/6 on a table or barstool at the rear of the stage for better height.

The first 15/6/1 I built out of 3/4 ply that I had left over from another project: 65 lb. Lesson here: follow the plans! The 1/2" BB ply to build the second 15/6/1 cost only $40.

The second 15/6/1 in 1/2" baltic birch: 55.2 lb. I still need to build and install the crossover so another couple pounds there, call it 57 finished.

I expect the pair of 15/6/1's to be a tiny bit of overkill, :)but every now and then those bigger outdoor gigs come along. I'm expecting these cabs to serve PA duty as well.

For comparison, my four space SKB X shallow rack with Korg tuner and the GK 1001 rb2 weighs 37 lb. I usually make two trips from the car, bass and head, then the cab.

Tonight's thing is in a concrete tunnel of a loading dock, with a cavern of a warehouse and brewery behind the stage and a metal and glass roll up door at the other end of the room. Brutal acoustics. The key is keeping the volume down, so the 12/6 is all I'm taking. The place can be fun in the summer when the rollup door is open and people can hang out side, but it's sub freezing tonight. I'm just hoping for some heat in the space.

As far as the 30 watt amp goes, if it will handle the B string on the Dingwall, you are good to go. These cabs are going to give you a whole new idea of lows. The first run with the 15/6/1 revealed a whole new range from the GK and the Dingwalls. The 12/6 sounds the same, just less volume. Still plenty loud for most gigs, and any gig with decent PA and monitors.

I just tested a couple amps. The TC didn't cut it, as it underpowered the lows and turned my B string into mud. That's not the Dingwall B string we know and love. The GK and the Carvin BX500 both have what it takes to run the bottom with authority. Most guys are leaning towards more headroom. I like tubey gooeyness as much as anybody, but I won't sacrifice fast response and full power for it. I'm not saying you can't run these cabs with less watts, just that you want to make sure the amp has all the range you need to do the Dingwall justice. Once you've heard what the fEarfuls can do, you'll really miss it when it's gone. You'll never look at provided backline the same way.

I'll be trying the Carvin HD 1500 power amp next week. We'll see if the Zoom B9 has enough output to serve as a preamp. If not, I'll be looking at pre amps or using the Carvin to power the two 15/6/1's after the mixer. For straight bass playing the GK will remain my steady rig. But some days will call for the pair of 15/6/1's and 1500 watts

I use the Parts Express solid speakon connectors with blades on the back. Any little input jack holes will whistle when you wind these cabs up.

A number of guys are running 12/6 or 15/6 with their respective size subs. I think you would need to go with the 18sound mid driver for the 12/6 and a sub. My tests with the 12/6 cube with the Alpha 6 and a sub (15" with CBG lowpass) where too scooped for my taste. I think most guys running subs can switch off the Lpad on their main cab.

I was lucky to find a cheap 18sound mid and decided to build out the pair of 15/6/1's rather than have a dedicated sub.

If there was any way you could hook up with a fEarful owner in your area, you'd see what we're talking about.
 
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