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Felix Pappalardi / Sunn help
- Thread starter eb3
- Start date
I don't pretend to have golden ears, but the distortion he's getting on the live Mountain album sounds very similar to what I get with my P and a Big Muff (the ordinary, nothing special, Black Russian job) with everything at around 12 o'clock. I'm NOT saying that's what he used, BTW; just that's the sound I get.
His distortion was due to the powerful Gibson EB1 ("mudbucker") pickup driving CRANKED tube amps.
I'm not sure which Sunn heads he used or if they were always the same.
It's nothing complicated and no pedals. That big Gibson neck humbucker can overdrive about anything and if you crank the amp you'll be fuzzed out like Pappalardi. No rocket science there.
I'm not sure which Sunn heads he used or if they were always the same.
It's nothing complicated and no pedals. That big Gibson neck humbucker can overdrive about anything and if you crank the amp you'll be fuzzed out like Pappalardi. No rocket science there.
Hello-
Can anyone tell me what model SUNN amps/cabs he used?
Any booster/effects?
Was distortion derived from just cranking his amps?
Thanks,
That sound doesn't come in a box. Unless it is a very big box.
here is the skinny...http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460791&highlight=sunn
here is the skinny...http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460791&highlight=sunn
I believe he had some sort of diode wired into his bass (similar to Jack Bruce)
Check with viobass on Pappalardi.com, he knows as much about Felix and his gear as anyone
Check with viobass on Pappalardi.com, he knows as much about Felix and his gear as anyone
I've heard this before, does anyone know if there is any truth in it, and if so, how it works?
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Most diodes will not conduct till they see over a volt. A bass doesn't put out anywhere near that much, so a diode across the bass output will do nothing. It may add some noise.
Nowadays, there are loads of distortion boxes and preamps that will get you the sound they had to hack together 40 years ago.
Nowadays, there are loads of distortion boxes and preamps that will get you the sound they had to hack together 40 years ago.
Going out on a limb here, I think what Felix was using were prototype 2000S heads built on 60W Spectrum II chassis. They have 4 knobs but all the pictures I can find show the narrower 24 inch wide heads, not the 30 inch heads like the production 2000S. The output transformer on these would have been the potted gray Dynaco transformers. Very early 2000S 30 inch heads had the same transformer, later units were by Schumaker.
The bass boost on the 2000S is really not a boost per se. In the off position you get a gentle rolloff about 120Hz and in the boost position it's flat to about 40Hz. The 2000S has kind of a Fender like passive tone stack (scooped mids) so it won't sound much like an Ampeg.
Here's a link to a thread on the Sunn forum. The picture is gone but I saved a copy.
Link Removed
The bass boost on the 2000S is really not a boost per se. In the off position you get a gentle rolloff about 120Hz and in the boost position it's flat to about 40Hz. The 2000S has kind of a Fender like passive tone stack (scooped mids) so it won't sound much like an Ampeg.
Here's a link to a thread on the Sunn forum. The picture is gone but I saved a copy.
Link Removed
Attachments
Those look like 30" wide 2000S heads sandwiched between 24" wide 200S cabs to me.
Also it's hard to tell because of the video quality, but the silver control panels on the heads look wider than the cabs in this 1970 video.
Regardless of which size chassis, Felix certainly got the most out of his Sunns!
Also it's hard to tell because of the video quality, but the silver control panels on the heads look wider than the cabs in this 1970 video.
Regardless of which size chassis, Felix certainly got the most out of his Sunns!
Attachments
Here's the best pictures I could find.
http://www.pappalardi.com/M19.html
But no reason to think the equipment stayed the same between tours.
http://www.pappalardi.com/M19.html
But no reason to think the equipment stayed the same between tours.
That sound was just that EB-1 or EB0 through those pictured Sunns. Sunns were capable of that sound if you cranked them. The JBLs would distort. Heard a kid in Washington Music Center with one head one cab getting that Grand Funk Railroad tone with a Fender bass. The Gibson EBO had so much more output and mud this was easy.
When I stood next to him in the wings at Georgetown and American Universities he had three sets of one head two cabs stacked like those pictures. The middle head was the master the two outside ones were slaves.
No pedals just raucous Gibson distorto bass. Not unlike Jack Bruce's Marshall tone just kind of more hifi distortion.
When I stood next to him in the wings at Georgetown and American Universities he had three sets of one head two cabs stacked like those pictures. The middle head was the master the two outside ones were slaves.
No pedals just raucous Gibson distorto bass. Not unlike Jack Bruce's Marshall tone just kind of more hifi distortion.
Hi -
Did more memory purging and remember that the fellow who sold me the Mountain equipment (two 200s 2x15"s and a 2000s head) pointed to one head among his collection that he said he "would never sell, 'cause it's Felix's master amp."
That, friends, was a 200S -- as the pix confirm. At least the amp said "200S" on it.
My 2000s was modded to be used as a slave amp with the flick of an added switch, and perhaps that's how it was utilized. In all my looking at Web pix since this conversation started a few months ago I've never seen a 2000s head in the backline, yet there it was among their gear..
It's pretty clear that Mountain's 1960s backline was a customized patchwork, and nobody who wasn't in band or crew can really point to anything and say definitively exactly what was what -- you can identify the box, but it's what's inside that makes the noise.
Did more memory purging and remember that the fellow who sold me the Mountain equipment (two 200s 2x15"s and a 2000s head) pointed to one head among his collection that he said he "would never sell, 'cause it's Felix's master amp."
That, friends, was a 200S -- as the pix confirm. At least the amp said "200S" on it.
My 2000s was modded to be used as a slave amp with the flick of an added switch, and perhaps that's how it was utilized. In all my looking at Web pix since this conversation started a few months ago I've never seen a 2000s head in the backline, yet there it was among their gear..
It's pretty clear that Mountain's 1960s backline was a customized patchwork, and nobody who wasn't in band or crew can really point to anything and say definitively exactly what was what -- you can identify the box, but it's what's inside that makes the noise.
Hmmm...I wonder if my pal Jay Traynor could shed any light on his rig. He was the original Jay of Jay and the Americans and sings with the Tokens now, and he was the road manager for Mountain during their heyday. But if it's as much a hodgepodge as you guys say, sounds like it could be tough. I'll be seeing him later today and I'll try to remember to ask him.
Ask him if he remembers the late Mike Lynch, who was another crewmember (tech type) and proprieter of Charles Lane Studios in NYC following his work on the road.
The gear I bought was among assets liquidated after Lynch's passing.
I saw Mountain live twice, and both times Felix had a stack of Sunn amps. Noel Redding had a similar stack of Sunn amps when I saw him with the Jimi Hendrix Experience as did Barry Oakley with the Allman Brothers Band and many others. A very common rig back then when there weren't many other big bass amps.
I also owned a few Sunn amps back then, and no pedals or modifications were necessary to get those amps to distort. They did a good job on their own.
Incidentally the original Coliseum PA head was Sunn's first 120-watt amp (1967) and preceded the 2000S. The Coliseum PA amp was 24-inches wide, and some people used them instead of the 60-watt Sunn 100S or 200S.
I also owned a few Sunn amps back then, and no pedals or modifications were necessary to get those amps to distort. They did a good job on their own.
Incidentally the original Coliseum PA head was Sunn's first 120-watt amp (1967) and preceded the 2000S. The Coliseum PA amp was 24-inches wide, and some people used them instead of the 60-watt Sunn 100S or 200S.
Welp, I got nothing out of Jay. Apparently he wasn't all that fond of Felix (didn't like his wife at all, and as it turns out, with good reason) and didn't spend a lot of time with him. He was closer to Leslie because Leslie was a regular guy and Felix was kind of arrogant. And he thinks he may remember Mike Lynch, but he wasn't sure.
Not surprising as he produced arguably the best Cream album, then later went on to form his very own version of Cream! Loud he was, Jack Bruce he wasn't. (Note: While there was a "West, Bruce, and Laing," I never heard of a "GUITAR GOD, Pappalardi, and ANYBODY."
LOL! I've always wondered how he got the producer gig for Disraeli Gears. Did he own a studio?
