Female bassists and your thoughts...

[foal30]

I looked at this and realized it was started almost 5 years ago. But I also think that, times and thinking was a lot different then. Now, with the sexual harassment allegations flying around in Congress, news organizations, in Hollywood, and list just go's on. Having a female in a group, comprised mostly of men, is far too dangerous for the guys. All she has to say to a police officer is "He touched me". And you have had it. It could be (apparently) years later, and he is in deep do-do. Is it fair, probably not. But I never get in a predicament where there is a woman, and myself, where she could say something that may not be true. There is a rule that I follow and it's called "The Billy Graham Rule". I suggest that anyone who wishes, to look it up. It may save you a lot of money, headaches, reputation, and your family if your married. As for myself, I will only work with men in a small group. Far too dangerous otherwise.

Unsure if this post is genuine.

 

[JW56789]

The bass guitar does NOT know who's playing it, man or woman. And as long as you can play the gig, who cares. It would be the same with a guy: CAN you play the gig, that's the only thing that matters. It's often a breath of fresh air, as their brains aren't completely fogged with testosterone and they have no 'little head' to think with . . . . . though it would be a hoot to read an interview with a big lady star who was gay talking about how she got started playing in bands 'to get hot chicks' !

When the other shoe drops, and it finally comes to light for civilians just how women are treated in the Music Bidness (at least as bad a movies / TV), then somewhere down the road it won't be an issue any more.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Whole lotta clueless, creepy, thirsty dudes in this thread.

And it seems they don't even realize it.

 

[Jimmy4string]

2 things:
1. I will stop and watch any band where the bass player is singing
2. I will stop and watch any band where the bass player is a girl
I will usually fall in love with the girl too

 

[mellowinman]

I looked at this and realized it was started almost 5 years ago. But I also think that, times and thinking was a lot different then. Now, with the sexual harassment allegations flying around in Congress, news organizations, in Hollywood, and list just go's on. Having a female in a group, comprised mostly of men, is far too dangerous for the guys. All she has to say to a police officer is "He touched me". And you have had it. It could be (apparently) years later, and he is in deep do-do. Is it fair, probably not. But I never get in a predicament where there is a woman, and myself, where she could say something that may not be true. There is a rule that I follow and it's called "The Billy Graham Rule". I suggest that anyone who wishes, to look it up. It may save you a lot of money, headaches, reputation, and your family if your married. As for myself, I will only work with men in a small group. Far too dangerous otherwise.

Dumbest thing I will read for the rest of 2017. In fact, this post may keep my off the internet for the rest of the year. Wow!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Dumbest thing I will read for the rest of 2017. In fact, this post may keep my off the internet for the rest of the year. Wow!

Sounds almost like it could easily become a New Years resolution?

 

[FMBassist]

Sounds almost like it could easily become a New Years resolution?

I sometimes work with a group of older people. And, there are always husbands and wives either watching or milling about in one way or another. When I say "group", I mean 30 or 40 people. Both musicians and vocalists. We even have "happy hour" together. Our rehearsals lasts for days, and our performances are for days also. We perform big band to 50's, 60's, and even Broadway and religious music.

When I was working in the private sector. A lady worked in the papers circulation department, but her husband was employed by a municipality in NJ. He worked in the Public Works Department. It was in the summer and while at work, she received a phone call from her husband saying she had to go to the Police Department of the town where he worked. She was told by the arresting officer that her husband had been arrested for attempted rape. She was devastated.

A lady asked him if he would help her with her trash as she was having trouble getting it all in the trash can. He obliged and got it to the truck where it was collected. He and the guy that he was with continued with there rounds. The lady called the local police and said that she was sexually assaulted by the garbage collector. Hence, his arrest.

They hired a criminal defense attorney. The court case lasted almost a year and a half, and when it was over, he was innocent of all charges. It was later discovered that she had a vendetta against the town where he worked and she lived. The attorney was paid, but cost them every thing they had. They even had to borrow against his pension. But the sad part was, after the trial, he died less 6 months later. It is believed that the stress was to much.

Later I heard about the Graham Rule. By the way, even VP Mike Pence follows this.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I sometimes work with a group of older people. And, there are always husbands and wives either watching or milling about in one way or another. When I say "group", I mean 30 or 40 people. Both musicians and vocalists. We even have "happy hour" together. Our rehearsals lasts for days, and our performances are for days also. We perform big band to 50's, 60's, and even Broadway and religious music.

When I was working in the private sector. A lady worked in the papers circulation department, but her husband was employed by a municipality in NJ. He worked in the Public Works Department. It was in the summer and while at work, she received a phone call from her husband saying she had to go to the Police Department of the town where he worked. She was told by the arresting officer that her husband had been arrested for attempted rape. She was devastated.

A lady asked him if he would help her with her trash as she was having trouble getting it all in the trash can. He obliged and got it to the truck where it was collected. He and the guy that he was with continued with there rounds. The lady called the local police and said that she was sexually assaulted by the garbage collector. Hence, his arrest.

They hired a criminal defense attorney. The court case lasted almost a year and a half, and when it was over, he was innocent of all charges. It was later discovered that she had a vendetta against the town where he worked and she lived. The attorney was paid, but cost them every thing they had. They even had to borrow against his pension. But the sad part was, after the trial, he died less 6 months later. It is believed that the stress was to much.

Later I heard about the Graham Rule. By the way, even VP Mike Pence follows this.

Huh? What'd I miss?

 

[foal30]

I sometimes work with a group of older people. And, there are always husbands and wives either watching or milling about in one way or another. When I say "group", I mean 30 or 40 people. Both musicians and vocalists. We even have "happy hour" together. Our rehearsals lasts for days, and our performances are for days also. We perform big band to 50's, 60's, and even Broadway and religious music.

When I was working in the private sector. A lady worked in the papers circulation department, but her husband was employed by a municipality in NJ. He worked in the Public Works Department. It was in the summer and while at work, she received a phone call from her husband saying she had to go to the Police Department of the town where he worked. She was told by the arresting officer that her husband had been arrested for attempted rape. She was devastated.

A lady asked him if he would help her with her trash as she was having trouble getting it all in the trash can. He obliged and got it to the truck where it was collected. He and the guy that he was with continued with there rounds. The lady called the local police and said that she was sexually assaulted by the garbage collector. Hence, his arrest.

They hired a criminal defense attorney. The court case lasted almost a year and a half, and when it was over, he was innocent of all charges. It was later discovered that she had a vendetta against the town where he worked and she lived. The attorney was paid, but cost them every thing they had. They even had to borrow against his pension. But the sad part was, after the trial, he died less 6 months later. It is believed that the stress was to much.

Later I heard about the Graham Rule. By the way, even VP Mike Pence follows this.

Well I read this Billy Graham rule

I can't reply honestly without breaking every rule on this site

I will say that I and my Wife have followed a diametric opposite way to raise our children and now grandchildren.

 

[ninjaaron]

This thread is going epic.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Well I read this Billy Graham rule

I can't reply honestly without breaking every rule on this site

I will say that I and my Wife have followed a diametric opposite way to raise our children and now grandchildren.

I seem to have found two versions of this rule.

One appears to advise that men in the ministry should avoid being in a room alone with a woman who is not their wife.
The other appears to be an abbreviated version advising that men should never be alone with a woman who is not their wife.
There seems to be a lot of difference in the two depending on Mr. Graham's intended reason for making this statement, if in fact, he did make it.

I could not find anything that appeared to be an actual quote attributed to Reverend Graham. This then makes it difficult to understand what the intentions or meanings might be.

I assume someone will be able to cite this with proper references, and perhaps offer the reasoning and intentions behind it?

 

[hrodbert696]

I seem to have found two versions of this rule.

One appears to advise that men in the ministry should avoid being in a room alone with a woman who is not their wife.
The other appears to be an abbreviated version advising that men should never be alone with a woman who is not their wife.
There seems to be a lot of difference in the two depending on Mr. Graham's intended reason for making this statement, if in fact, he did make it.

I could not find anything that appeared to be an actual quote attributed to Revend Graham. This then makes it difficult to understand what the intentions or meanings might be.

I assume someone will be able to cite this with proper references, and perhaps offer the reasoning and intentions behind it?

Invalid Link Removed

It comes from the "Modesto Manifesto," which was never a written document but which Graham describes in his autobiography. Besides contact with women, it also involved resolutions about transparency in finances, the revivalists' interactions with local churches, and in publicity. It came out of discussions with other ministers about problems that plagued their line of work. Graham has a story about being seriously tempted while on the road, locking himself in a hotel room and throwing the key out the window. But he has also said that the "manifesto" was more of an informal agreement than a strict rule and that he's made exceptions as appropriate on various occasions. I think it was really composed with the particular concerns of being a charismatic public figure on the road frequently, not as a rule for life for all men.

I looked at this and realized it was started almost 5 years ago. But I also think that, times and thinking was a lot different then. Now, with the sexual harassment allegations flying around in Congress, news organizations, in Hollywood, and list just go's on. Having a female in a group, comprised mostly of men, is far too dangerous for the guys. All she has to say to a police officer is "He touched me". And you have had it. It could be (apparently) years later, and he is in deep do-do. Is it fair, probably not. But I never get in a predicament where there is a woman, and myself, where she could say something that may not be true. There is a rule that I follow and it's called "The Billy Graham Rule". I suggest that anyone who wishes, to look it up. It may save you a lot of money, headaches, reputation, and your family if your married. As for myself, I will only work with men in a small group. Far too dangerous otherwise.

You're paranoid.

Whatever its merits or lack thereof, invoking the Graham Rule as a reason not to be in a band with a woman is ridiculous. For one thing, it doesn't even apply. A band is not a one-on-one meeting. If you were to say you couldn't be in a duo with a female partner because you couldn't trust yourself not to make a move on her, or trust her not to accuse you, then it might apply. Billy Graham didn't refuse to have women on his team. All that invoking it this way does is to exclude women from the little boys' club of playing in bands, which is sad.

The thing about accusations is that, while false accusations do happen, there are far more actual incidents of assault and harassment that go unreported than there are false charges. Now everyone wants to go all backlash about how it isn't fair that after years of biting her tongue in terror of what people will say, a woman finally dares to tell the story of what someone did to her. What horrid is the way that so many are poised to jump straight to Potiphar's Wife references and slow to see Amnon and Tamar.

In the story about the woman and the trash collection, if she really had it in for this guy, do you suppose that not helping with her trash would really have protected him from her finding a way to make his life hell? Does it justify treating all women like crap because one of them might be psycho? Any dangers a man faces from predatory women pale by comparison to the dangers women face from predatory men. It's just a fact of living in a society filled with flawed people that you have to cope with the bad ones.

To be sure, there's common sense. I teach college. If a female student needs to meet with me, I don't invite her out for drinks or up to a hotel room. She comes by my office hours and I leave the door open. But then of course I don't invite male students up to hotel rooms either.

The problem with an awful lot of the posts on this thread is the immediate unspoken assumption that the #1 first thing to decide when contemplating a female bandmate is sex appeal - even if one eventually concludes "well, what really matters is her ability to play." To be sure, sex is a thing and it's not realistic to pretend that it's never an issue that plays a role. But that's true in all situations where people interact. The prospect of being in a band with a female musician has no more to do with sex appeal (as an asset or a danger) than hiring a female saleswoman to a company or studying under a female professor. Any hypothetical sexual interaction crosses the radar of your imagination, you assess it and figure out where the appropriate boundaries are, and carry on with what you're doing.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Invalid Link Removed

It comes from the "Modesto Manifesto," which was never a written document but which Graham describes in his autobiography. Besides contact with women, it also involved resolutions about transparency in finances, the revivalists' interactions with local churches, and in publicity. It came out of discussions with other ministers about problems that plagued their line of work. Graham has a story about being seriously tempted while on the road, locking himself in a hotel room and throwing the key out the window. But he has also said that the "manifesto" was more of an informal agreement than a strict rule and that he's made exceptions as appropriate on various occasions. I think it was really composed with the particular concerns of being a charismatic public figure on the road frequently, not as a rule for life for all men.



You're paranoid.

Whatever its merits or lack thereof, invoking the Graham Rule as a reason not to be in a band with a woman is ridiculous. For one thing, it doesn't even apply. A band is not a one-on-one meeting. If you were to say you couldn't be in a duo with a female partner because you couldn't trust yourself not to make a move on her, or trust her not to accuse you, then it might apply. Billy Graham didn't refuse to have women on his team. All that invoking it this way does is to exclude women from the little boys' club of playing in bands, which is sad.

The thing about accusations is that, while false accusations do happen, there are far more actual incidents of assault and harassment that go unreported than there are false charges. Now everyone wants to go all backlash about how it isn't fair that after years of biting her tongue in terror of what people will say, a woman finally dares to tell the story of what someone did to her. What horrid is the way that so many are poised to jump straight to Potiphar's Wife references and slow to see Amnon and Tamar.

In the story about the woman and the trash collection, if she really had it in for this guy, do you suppose that not helping with her trash would really have protected him from her finding a way to make his life hell? Does it justify treating all women like crap because one of them might be psycho? Any dangers a man faces from predatory women pale by comparison to the dangers women face from predatory men. It's just a fact of living in a society filled with flawed people that you have to cope with the bad ones.

To be sure, there's common sense. I teach college. If a female student needs to meet with me, I don't invite her out for drinks or up to a hotel room. She comes by my office hours and I leave the door open. But then of course I don't invite male students up to hotel rooms either.

The problem with an awful lot of the posts on this thread is the immediate unspoken assumption that the #1 first thing to decide when contemplating a female bandmate is sex appeal - even if one eventually concludes "well, what really matters is her ability to play." To be sure, sex is a thing and it's not realistic to pretend that it's never an issue that plays a role. But that's true in all situations where people interact. The prospect of being in a band with a female musician has no more to do with sex appeal (as an asset or a danger) than hiring a female saleswoman to a company or studying under a female professor. Any hypothetical sexual interaction crosses the radar of your imagination, you assess it and figure out where the appropriate boundaries are, and carry on with what you're doing.

Thank you for going to the trouble to fill in the blanks in this discussion. As I would expect from someone who teaches at a post secondary level, you brought balance and reason to this matter while still invoking further curiousity. I had to go and look up additional information, twice, so that I didn't miss the meaning of anything that you said. As I had suspected, the original Billy Graham reference was cited here incorrectly and/or taken out of context.

Now if only we could apply the same rational logic and clarity of thought to dispell the myths surrounding power ratings, we'd all be much better off.

 

[Jimmy4string]

Hrodbert, I think sex appeal comes into play in bands for guys and girls. At least i hope so. Being good helps a great deal and booking and playing the correct music and dressing the part. However, I dont discount charisma and sex appeal.
But that's just like my opinion man....

 

[pellomoco14]

Now that I've thought my own experiences over. I recall several classified adds which stated up front NO MEN!!! I had a similar attitude as the OP I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. Also care to associate with closed bigots or play in gimikey bands for that matter. Just as I don't apply for jobs which require an accounting degree or lifting 80+lbs regularly. Funny story; When I was in my early 20s I knew an all girl ska/alt. rock band at some point they needed a bass player but refused to let me audition. I persisted asking if they ever found that new bass player and after a few months I got an audition as a temp. when I said you want another girl no problem I'll wear a dress and lipstick, the whole works. I'll be a girl for an hour. It was fun I played better because I was too nervous about the imposter drag situation than my playing and on the 3ed or 4th show some red neck in Fronts creamed to the be singer- "flash your boobies!" I exclaimed "Hey even better, you can have mine its getting in the way" and handed him an orange from the bra. That's the only reason I rarely take perminant positions in metal bands Even as a strate male I'm not accepted. Most thrash and metalcorebands also aren't open to major mode tonalities this is what offends me on a personal level an entire set in dm. The next day Lydian passages awkward and I feel like I need to practice more to prevent getting stuck melodicly. Soon resentment begins to fester. So in my meager, irreverent life the most destructive bigotry is harmonic and rhythmic. I just may start an activist group for equality of all 12 keys, every scale and all of their modes; I want my (vii)Ilydian and eat it over a (I)dom chord too! #all modes matter
I'm being scenciere except I don't even have twitter and that lecture won't go any further than my students. Sorry for drifting so far off topic. Reading this epic thread gave me too much time to think.

 

[QORC]

I actually was approached last year by a woman known in the area for her singing who was trying to put an all-girl Motley Crue band out there but could not find a bassist, and was wondering if I was interested even though I'm not. I was like...huh?? I declined.

and oh by the way, it never got off the ground anyway

 

[kev451]

As a female bassist myself, I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks about us generally.
I don't see any female musicians in bands of my chosen genre (metal, metalcore, deathcore etc...) which sucks but also gives me something to strive towards.
I've had rejections from bands because "a girl in the band just wouldn't look right" which is a fair point I suppose, but still grinds my gears.

One question and one question only can you play ? If it's yes then who cares if it's not go practice and refer to the previous answer.

 

[Inara]

What I as a female bassist who is fairly new to the forum have learned from this thread: don't read threads like this.

 

[Chicory Blue]

Two years and 13 pages later, creating this topic remains OP's only post on this forum.

Let that sink in.

--^@

 

[Dasgre0g]

Now that I've thought my own experiences over. I recall several classified adds which stated up front NO MEN!!! I had a similar attitude as the OP I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. Also care to associate with closed bigots or play in gimikey bands for that matter. Just as I don't apply for jobs which require an accounting degree or lifting 80+lbs regularly. Funny story; When I was in my early 20s I knew an all girl ska/alt. rock band at some point they needed a bass player but refused to let me audition. I persisted asking if they ever found that new bass player and after a few months I got an audition as a temp. when I said you want another girl no problem I'll wear a dress and lipstick, the whole works. I'll be a girl for an hour. It was fun I played better because I was too nervous about the imposter drag situation than my playing and on the 3ed or 4th show some red neck in Fronts creamed to the be singer- "flash your boobies!" I exclaimed "Hey even better, you can have mine its getting in the way" and handed him an orange from the bra. That's the only reason I rarely take perminant positions in metal bands Even as a strate male I'm not accepted. Most thrash and metalcorebands also aren't open to major mode tonalities this is what offends me on a personal level an entire set in dm. The next day Lydian passages awkward and I feel like I need to practice more to prevent getting stuck melodicly. Soon resentment begins to fester. So in my meager, irreverent life the most destructive bigotry is harmonic and rhythmic. I just may start an activist group for equality of all 12 keys, every scale and all of their modes; I want my (vii)Ilydian and eat it over a (I)dom chord too! #all modes matter
I'm being scenciere except I don't even have twitter and that lecture won't go any further than my students. Sorry for drifting so far off topic. Reading this epic thread gave me too much time to think.

Except many women who play in all female bands do so intentionally. Specifically to avoid sexist remarks, passive-aggressive innuendo (which I've already read and some of the posts here from the last 2 months) Etc from their own band members, but on top of that because of the empathetic camaraderie of being female in a completely misogynistic industry. So no. Even though you think it should not matter as long as you can play, the female musician are resistant to playing around you there's a reason. And it might not be specifically you, but you should respect it immediately. That being said, going back to the first three pages, well most of it, of this thread was absolutely horrifying. I had to read the dates just to make sure.