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Fender 100T vs Ampeg V 4B
- Thread starter Bigwalker
- Start date
What type of tube sound are you wanting? Clean, fat and with tube warmth? Or what I like to call the "saturation sweet spot." Where you crank the amp till the power tubes get saturated and put out that growling snarling tone we love from tubes? If it's the latter then 300 tube watts might be WAY too much power. You'd need to get it hella loud to hit that sweet spot I mentioned. I ask Because a long time ago I bought an SVT because everybody said yeah that's the amp you need. I found it to be just OK but I have never been a big fan of Ampeg Tone stack. It's it's a personal thing because many people love it but I'm not one of them.
The other thing and the most deciding factor for me selling it was that in order to get into that saturation area where I wanted it to be.it was so friggin loud that it was way too much for easily 90% of the gigs I was doing at that time. For me at that time that meant a lot of club work and it was overkill for those venues. I know a lot of the tube amps have gain controls built into them. S0, now and you can dial in the amount of gain you want from the preamp tubes. But to me preamp distortion has never had that sweet saturated sound like power tube distortion has.
My solution was to switch to a 100 Watt all tube amp. 100 tube watts are plenty loud enough for almost any gig especially now that we have PA support so readily available. You can get that thing into power tube saturation without knocking out the first four rows. And through an efficient cabinet it is more than enough For any gig you're going to run across. I tried the V4B And I found it to be more than enough power at 100 watts. That head on top of a TL 606 style side port 2-15 cabinet loaded with EVM15 B's speakers covered just about any club I was playing at that time. but I never got along good with the tone stack. So, I went to a Fender Silverface 100 watt Bassman head and that worked great for me. But I think It was mostly because I played guitar before I switched to bass and I always used Fender amps so I was very familiar with their somewhat quirky tone stack. In fact, to this day I still have a 100 Watt fender tube head. it is a dual showman reverb but I use it for bass. It is the later model silverface that has the push pull master volume.
I'd look for something that is a basic tube design that can be easily worked on. Regarding auti-bias circuits, most companies have since gotten the bugs woprked out of their designs. That's one thing about the older Fender tube amps. They've been around forever and any competent tech knows how to work on one. If you find an older used one for a decent price it can be brought up to spec and be very reliable. Take it to a qualified tech. Have them go through it replace whats needed usually filter and coupling caps and reistors that have drifted. The new tubes installed, biased, and then you have an amp will last you a long time. My 74 Dual Showman still gets the job done even after over 50 years. Kinda like me LOL.
For new I'd consider the Traynor YBA 100. Don't rule out Traynor. They make a great tube amp and you can pick your power. 100, 200, 300. the Ampeg V4B or even the new 50 watt portaflex head even though not a fan they still are decent bass amps, MESA Prodigy or Strategy or the older Bass 400 or 400+ still available USED. Orange AD200, I've heard good things about the REEVES 225. The Verellen's were getting much love here on TB. But I think Ben's not making amps any more as he's moved the focus of his company to making Octal tube replacemnents. but if you can find a Verellen amp used they're killer heads.
I do have to admit though with everything moving to class D All tube bass amps are beginning to become a dying breed. It's turning into a custom amp market. I'm keeping my Dual Showman.
Andy -- My Mesa Boogie Studio 22, the one that I almost destroyed by following the internet lore of using AT7 for the phase inverter is still alive. It was the house amp supposedly of the old Caravan country music and dance club in Albuquerque - so definitely abused, the proverbial ridden hard and put away wet - well the race track is about 3 blocks away LOL. The Tolex and grill has beer stains as well. As you know it is tube socket on a board. Our now retired Rick Heinzelman got it going and I use it this very day. He replaced the tube sockets due to my mistake and he said it was a piece of cake to replace. As you said if designed well..... Heavier men than I (170 and change) 225+ lbs use it also as a stool - so even the woodwork is commendable. I think this is a late-mid eighties 80's amp - almost 40 years. I use it for my experimental trio every week. It has a cozy life now after years of abuse at that club. Other than the phase inverter incident, all I had done is a a power switch and replaced the input jack.
Up date: I expanded the possibilities as follows, prices are what I have been able to find shipped or picked up
Kinda the pecking order for this morning, All but Ampeg hard to find mint/ excellant used
Traynor YBA 200-2 Used $1050...New $1360
Ashdown CTM 100. used $1250
Orange AD200 used $1450- $1650
Fender Bassman 100T Used $1600
Ampeg AV4 used $ $1000-$1350
Kinda the pecking order for this morning, All but Ampeg hard to find mint/ excellant used
Traynor YBA 200-2 Used $1050...New $1360
Ashdown CTM 100. used $1250
Orange AD200 used $1450- $1650
Fender Bassman 100T Used $1600
Ampeg AV4 used $ $1000-$1350
Ideally, you would have to try them all… First four have Fender tone stack, unless I am mistaken.
Interesting how things change from where i thkought
Down to final two
Traynor YBA200-2 New i was quoted $1200 shipped
OR
Fender Bassman 100t mint used $1600 shipped
Decision bassed on research, input for TB, Both can do the job..
BUT
The question: is the fender worth 35% more? Or just fender Hype
Down to final two
Traynor YBA200-2 New i was quoted $1200 shipped
OR
Fender Bassman 100t mint used $1600 shipped
Decision bassed on research, input for TB, Both can do the job..
BUT
The question: is the fender worth 35% more? Or just fender Hype
Not worth in this case, IMO. The Traynor is a good amp, made in NA with plenty of power. The only negative is that 4 KT88s will be expensive to replace when the time comes, but you shouldn't have to worry about that for quite some time.
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This rig must put some very serious volume.
(2) OBC115 and (1) OBC210
I usually only run the pair of 15s, which still sound fantastic. And yes, more than loud enough for anything.
I usually only run the pair of 15s, which still sound fantastic. And yes, more than loud enough for anything.
That will be my next dilemma to resolve
I have Epifani 2-10 & 1-12. To try 1st.. My preference is two 1-12's. I hope not to have to replace cabs with another make, maybe just add another Epi 1- 12
To bring it back around to your first post - since you said you have all 4 ohm cabs, the bassman 100T can do 2 ohms, the YBA-200 cannot. If you plan to only use those cabs and not combine them, not an issue. If you wanted to use more than one 4 ohm cab the fender can do that. Or you'd want to grab a series speaker connector (I used to use a Palmer speaker merger).
Not sure how important price is to you, but a 100 T was posted on reverb last night for a lot cheaper than the price you stated. It's a V2 and it looks mint
I like Fender tube amps, for both bass & guitar, and would love to get a Super Bassman someday. I initially liked and at one point wanted to get a 100T but the continuing issues with the 100T's autobiasing circuitry spooked me off. If I can't maintain or fix it, than I don't want it, no matter how good it sounds.
I'd really love to give a V4B a good workout. I've never played one but when folks post clips of them in use, I usually like the tone. I hear that the vintage ones are louder than the reissues but idk if that's true or just online jibber jabber.
Irt the YBA. Keep looking (daily) on the "Gear Hunter" section of the Long & McQuade site. If you're vigilant & patient, you should be able to score a 200 for an almost stupidly low price. I got mine for $399 and it's in great shape. It has a very good usable tone, no hum with a nice low noise floor, and so far, zero issues.
To my (and the other players at the local jam who have played through it) ears, it has a great tone. Mine is an early 200, not the "-2" version. I've never had it apart so I have no idea if it has been updated to the newer specs or not. L&M didn't know either so probably not.
ldk where you're from, but if you're in Canada and happen to be near a Long & McQuade store. They can often get it to said store from the other one at little or no cost to you, depending on where exactly it's coming from. My nearest dealer is about 45-60 minutes away depending on traffic so most of the time, my cost of shipping is my gas to do the trip for the pickup.
I see that a lot of players here on TB talk about the 200's ease of being overdriven and also its alleged brightness. Tbh, I don't find that to be the case. I have to spin mine up to at least 6-7 on the pre and 7-8 on the master to start getting that in any truly notable amount and it never goes into full on distortion. More like some additional saturation, compression, and harmonic content. With the gain & volume set as above, I just get a good, rounded, warm bass tone. If you find it too gainy, use the -6db input. Contrary to what conventional wisdom often implies, it isn't only for active basses. Otoh, not all active basses are higher output either so use whatever input works for you, your bass, and your ears.
Granted, I play with a pretty soft touch from my fingers, some (very) occasional slap, and rarely use a pick. Plus, a lot of my basses have flatwounds/half rounds so I'm usually not hitting the preamp very hard at all, but my Jazz with GHS Boomers and Precision with Elixers sound really good through it too. I also set up most of my basses with a medium action to minimize or eliminate fret clacking. I want to hear the notes, not the frets.
Granted, some consider anything but pristine clean to be "overdriven" but I don't consider a bit of tube character/grit in my tone to be objectionable. I like a tone with some character and clarity. Warm & round with some snap when needed but never muddy or zingy. Not something that sounds like it's coming out of a super clean PA which to me are what a lot of modern amps seem to striving for, which at times, can sound a bit on the sterile or shrill side.
I'm not a tube snob either. Yes, I love my YBAs, but I also have hybrid, old school S/S, and Class D amps that have tone with some character to them too. I like my cabs well enough but most of them wouldn't get a 2nd look around here. I paid $100 each for the two that I use the most.
Great tones can be had with any well designed amp paired up with a cabinet that compliments it, regardless of what school of tech or trendy (or maybe not so trendy
) manufacturer it hails from.Sometimes, I think that we here on TB get too caught up with tech specs, more fancy controls, and the Newest Shiny Thing that just got released. Maybe we need to get offline more often, take a collective chill, just sit down, play our basses, use our ears, & LISTEN to the gear instead of looking at it with it's latest & greatest whatevers and then judging it by the perceived awesomeness or shortcomings of its spec sheet.
Pic or it isn't real. I need to get the 810 out more...it's getting dusty lol.
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The heads you are looking at, except the Orange and Traynor, are big ol wide things. They will very much hang over the sides of your cab underneath. I'm not sure how you feel about cabinet Stonehenge, personally it's a turn off but we're all different. 2 12's side by side would have the head straddling the two, stacked tall it would be a capital T.
Would be neat if some of these heads were modernized a bit to suit the new narrower cab styles. Plenty of used fish in the sea if someone wants the old big and bulky appearance.
It's the midrange EQ frequencies that your amplifier and speaker puts out (the "Bass" "Mid" "Treble" EQ section on your amp).
Some cabinets will put an intentional "scoop" in the midrange frequency reproduction, meaning it's a cut to that frequency range or it's designed to not reproduce a lot of those frequencies. Different people have different opinions on whether scooped mids is a good thing, but a cabinet that scoops mids paired with a cut-only mid control on your amp....means you'll have to work extra hard to not get lost in a band mix or in recordings.
I paired my YBA200-2 with a Kasino 2x15s cabinet, but I outfitted it with two Eminence Legend CB158's, they did a pretty good job of keeping me in the mix.
Found this in Traynor spec inf
Ok. Im actually evaluating my entire rig since the deals ( traynor & fender) fell out.
I borrowed a Bergantino Forte HP-2x for a gig last weekend and used The BFT circuit ( very nice unit) now I'm questioning everything…again
