Fender Classic 50s, RW, and other P neck profiles compared?

[Larry McQueary]

TL;DR: No hands-on access to vintage/reissue neck profiles within a 100 mile radius, but interested in knowing differences between the various Fender P Bass Classic 50s (& lacquer), AVRI, and RW neck profiles.

Is there any good reference (online or a paper book) or comprehensive TB thread comparing the various Fender Precision bass neck profiles, particularly the AVRI (57/62, 58/63), Classic 50s (and 50s lacquer) necks vs. their actual vintage counterparts? Searching the forums here yields a bunch of fragmented information I can't seem to make sense of.

I am asking because I live in a market where it's nearly impossible to find a Classic 50s (original or lacquer), Road Worn, or other popular (non-MIA/MIM Standard) reissue/classic Fender P bass models in a showroom. Guitar Center has run most local shops out of business, and the 5 GC stores within driving distance only seem to stock a small number of MIA and Standard basses, maybe a couple of Modern Players and random Squiers (mostly Affinity). Of course we have Wildwood here, but their Fender stock consists of 3 CS basses starting at $3000+ (no thanks).

I have never held a 50s/60s P neck with the 1.75" nut width, and have no feel for the various profiles at this nut width. So if I want to try them out, I'm in the awkward position of having to buy online, sight unseen, just to try out a bass. Or in this case, a few different basses. Even with liberal return policies, it's a hassle to have to mail-order e.g. 4 basses and return 3.

I know, "waaaaaaaa", First World Problem, right? Still, would appreciate any advice or pointers.

Thanks!

 

[MarkJC8]

This is really a great question, Larry...

I went to a local guitar show recently and sat down with a Fender 63 AVRI P bass. I expected it to feel like my Fender MIM Classic 50s P neck, but I was in for a surprise. It had the "C" nut width of 1.75 and the string spacing I was used to, but the "C" neck was WAY thinner than my Classic 50's P. I didn't like the neck, but the bass was very lightweight compared to mine.

The dealer was very nice and handed me a 1972 Fender P and this neck had a "B" nut width of 1.625, but the neck was different from the 63 AVRI P. Still too thin for me.

Now I was confused.

It really is true that you have to hold and play these basses before you buy, because the necks can be really variable.

There is not much out there on TalkBass or the web that really explains the different neck shapes of the Fender basses (even in the current production line)... you can get nut width and radius, but that is only part of the story. The neck shape is crucial, and I realized a "C' neck can mean several different shapes.

I would like to upgrade to a Fender 57 or 58 AVRI, but like Larry says... you just don't see them in shops. And I want to get as close to the Classic 50s P (or Road Worn 50s P) neck as I can get with an AVRI... but I don't know how to figure this out. Judging from the thin "C" neck I felt at the show, I will avoid the 62/63 AVRI series.

And the vintage basses I have held at guitar shows... every neck is different! No routing machines back then, just a guy in a leather apron working hard at a saw all day and eyeballing the measurements.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Mark

 

[toons]

I cannot provide a comparison other than having owned a number of different US P basses including 1960, 1968, 1971, 1999, 2001, and 2008. My current favorite is a 1996 57 AVRI and that is solely because of the neck and fretboard. It has the meatiest neck of any of the other P basses but seems to fall into hand in a very relaxed way. I don't have exceptionally large hands so that is not an issue. The neck just feels really solid. I think it has something to do with radius of the fretboard and general profile of the neck, which is somewhat similar to the 1960 being wide, but plays differently. It might be that the profile from front to back on the 57 is slightly larger or more pronounced than the 60 which may affect the angle of my left hand and guide it into better form. Not sure the slight difference in profile was intentional in design. As Mark indicated there is a lot of variation in the profiles of vintage instruments. My perception seems to coincide with the differences Mark noted between the Classic 50s and the 63 AVRI. It has been way too long since I have played a 62 AVRI, but I don't recall being as enthralled with the feel of the neck. I do not know if there were any subtle differences in the profile of the neck over the years but I can play the 96 57 AVRI for hours without any sign of strain. I also tend to prefer a lacquer finish on necks. Great bass for playing solid and deep in the pocket, which is why a choose a p bass for those types of gigs. I won't comment on the sound or the level of craftsmanship, but suffice it to say I will not be letting go of it any time soon. There are a lot of very positive reviews of the 57 AVRI on the net. After some time with the bass I would tend to agree with many of the observations.

Now that the 57 is no longer in production I expect there are only used ones on the market going for used prices. I picked mine up recently for far less than the price of a new roadworn at my local dealer. There might be some good deals out there if you are willing to be patient. I doubt you would be disappointed, but if you find out that it is not for you, you should be able to sell it without being out of pocket.

Highly recommended!

 

[MarkJC8]

Now that the 57 is no longer in production I expect there are only used ones on the market going for used prices. I picked mine up recently for far less than the price of a new roadworn at my local dealer. There might be some good deals out there if you are willing to be patient. I doubt you would be disappointed, but if you find out that it is not for you, you should be able to sell it without being out of pocket.

I wonder if the 1958 AVRI they produce now has the same neck size and shape as your 1957 AVRI P Bass.
I think the Classic 50's P may have the nice comfortable bigger neck you are describing.
Now you have got me interested!
Anyone out there in TalkBass land know if the 57 and 58 AVRI P Basses have the same neck size, shape and feel?

 

[Gaolee]

It has been a while, so take this for what its worth. I played a MIM 50s P before I bought a Road Worn P. The profiles felt the same, but the finish on the RW felt much, much better. I would be surprised if the lacquer version has a different profile, since they are made on a CNC machine these days.

None of them are anything like a 1957, which has a soft V neck. Given the choice, that's what I would want, but given the price, I'm very happy with the RW.

 

[MarkJC8]

It has been a while, so take this for what its worth. I played a MIM 50s P before I bought a Road Worn P. The profiles felt the same, but the finish on the RW felt much, much better. I would be surprised if the lacquer version has a different profile, since they are made on a CNC machine these days.

None of them are anything like a 1957, which has a soft V neck. Given the choice, that's what I would want, but given the price, I'm very happy with the RW.

I have both the 50s Classic P and the Roadworn P right now... same exact bass for sure (and same neck)... but you are right, Gaolee. The lacquer finish and the relic'd neck on the Classic feel better.

I wonder if that is the neck shape on the Fender 58 AVRI? If so... GAS

 

[WoodyJ]

Last year I bought a '58 AVRI. It is amazing in every respect - neck profile, the pickup and the fit and finish. It is Custom Shop quality, IMO.

I'm a big fan of the "gold guard" Fender Precisions. I have four of them currently, a "real" 1957 that I've had for over 30 years, an early Fullerton built (1982) '57 AVRI, the '58 AV, and a Custom Shop '59. Each of them has a unique neck profile, the real '57 being the most different with that luscious V-neck. That one doesn't get much play any longer as it is in preservation mode. Of the rest, I like the '58 AV the best. It's neck is chunky like it is supposed to be but not overly so as is the Fullerton '57 AVRI (which has a VERY chunky D-shape, not a prototypically correct V). The '59 CS neck is very similar to the '58 AV but the '58 actually sounds better (much better pickup) so I use it more than any of the other goldguards. My fingers are not overly long but I am very sensitive to the nuances of the different profiles available.

If there were no basses available locally that I was interested in and I was going to have to order one online (Sweetwater is the best I've used in the past), I'd go with the '58 AV, based on the specs you are looking for. I don't think you will be disappointed. It takes a lot to impress me and the '58 does just that. It is the Total Package.

 

[MarkJC8]

Thanks, Woody!

That is very helpful information.
I love the goldguards too. Definitely my favorites.
I am surprised that the the '58 AVRI sounds better than the '59 CS, but I guess that goes along with the inherent variability of some of these basses.
You almost get conditioned to think that more expensive= better instrument, but I think I will avoid that generalization.
No substitute for holding it and playing it...

Now I'm on the lookout for a used '58 AVRI!

Thanks

 

[WoodyJ]

The main difference, I believe, is the pickup. The AV '58 PU is the best-sounding stock Fender pickup I've ever encountered in 42 years of playing bass.

My "Number One" studio bass is a '65 Precision with a Jason Lollar pickup. That bass has "THE sound". The '58 AV pickup is pretty darn close. Plenty of bottom but with great clarity and definition as well. It is different than the one used on the AV '63 Precision. I haven't tried that one - yet.

 

[toons]

That seems to fit my recollection of the tonal difference between the 57 and 62 AVRIs. I thought the 57 had a bit more top and bottom and the 62 was a bit more focused on the mids. And that's not to say that either bass was lacking anything. The most noticeable difference was the neck profile with the 57 being thicker from the fretboard to back of the neck and the 62 being flatter.