There's nothing to "resolve". Those putting a counterfeit decal on any guitar are in the wrong. Period.
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Fender Decals On Non-Fender Basses
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
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There's nothing to "resolve". Those putting a counterfeit decal on any guitar are in the wrong. Period.
Because at the end of the day it's up to Fender to decide not a bunch of guys on the internet.
Not really. Fender is the de jure authority on what can happen with their stuff, but the de facto authority is the person owning the instrument.
(I will now taking this to the next level of absurdity)
Now I understand copyrights ,branding, and all that but let's look at it another way just for the hell of it.
Now I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, but in a way it seems funny to me that it is considered bad taste to stick a "Fender" decal on a Nash jazz bass (for example), when , other than buying the parts, bolting them together, and whipping them with a belt buckle, it has everything"Fender" about it(Total design, Dimensions, specifications, etc..) and very little " Nash" about it.
It's actually more offensive,for lack of a better term, to see someone else's name on the bass when the instrument itself is for all practical purposes identical to Leo's bass. Nash basses are really just cosmetically abused but otherwise identical copies of fender basses. Think of how many guitar companies got their start by humping the corpse of Fender.
The mind boggles.
Now I say this not to put down , be critical of, or show disrespect to Mr. Nash, or Mr. Sadowsky, or Suhr, or Lakin or Lull etc etc.. It's just for the sake of discussion.
That's where the money comes in I suppose. As long as the Fender Corp gets their money in the form of licensing fees, anybody can produce and sell Fender basses with their own name on it.
It seems to me that This whole issue of the desire folks have to put "Fender" on their non Fender basses has to do with our society's fixation with branding.
Folks seem to feel better about themselves if they can associate their personal belongings to a popular and respected brand. A Warmoth or Nash parts bass doesn't perform any better with a sticker on the head stock but some folks seem to feel better having one on there.
While there are unscrupulous people who will try to make money by counterfeiting vintage guitars with criminal intent, I don't believe that is the biggest motivation for this trend.
So I suppose, In my opinion, I don't have a problem with you if you get your jollies dressing up your bass to look like a Fender. I wouldn't waste my time doing it myself ( I guess I don't see the thrill in pretending to have a "real" Fender since Fender hasn't "really" been "Fender" for nearly 50 years ).
I do have a problem if you try to misrepresent your bass to sell it to some poor innocent kid, or some other scummy purpose. Otherwise, whatever makes you happy.
Now I understand copyrights ,branding, and all that but let's look at it another way just for the hell of it.
Now I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, but in a way it seems funny to me that it is considered bad taste to stick a "Fender" decal on a Nash jazz bass (for example), when , other than buying the parts, bolting them together, and whipping them with a belt buckle, it has everything"Fender" about it(Total design, Dimensions, specifications, etc..) and very little " Nash" about it.
It's actually more offensive,for lack of a better term, to see someone else's name on the bass when the instrument itself is for all practical purposes identical to Leo's bass. Nash basses are really just cosmetically abused but otherwise identical copies of fender basses. Think of how many guitar companies got their start by humping the corpse of Fender.
The mind boggles.Now I say this not to put down , be critical of, or show disrespect to Mr. Nash, or Mr. Sadowsky, or Suhr, or Lakin or Lull etc etc.. It's just for the sake of discussion.
That's where the money comes in I suppose. As long as the Fender Corp gets their money in the form of licensing fees, anybody can produce and sell Fender basses with their own name on it.
It seems to me that This whole issue of the desire folks have to put "Fender" on their non Fender basses has to do with our society's fixation with branding.
Folks seem to feel better about themselves if they can associate their personal belongings to a popular and respected brand. A Warmoth or Nash parts bass doesn't perform any better with a sticker on the head stock but some folks seem to feel better having one on there.
While there are unscrupulous people who will try to make money by counterfeiting vintage guitars with criminal intent, I don't believe that is the biggest motivation for this trend.
So I suppose, In my opinion, I don't have a problem with you if you get your jollies dressing up your bass to look like a Fender. I wouldn't waste my time doing it myself ( I guess I don't see the thrill in pretending to have a "real" Fender since Fender hasn't "really" been "Fender" for nearly 50 years ).
I do have a problem if you try to misrepresent your bass to sell it to some poor innocent kid, or some other scummy purpose. Otherwise, whatever makes you happy.
I'm now vasilating between two threads on this subject, and I'm going to assert the following theory, on both threads:
If Fender Guitar Co. is so concerned about their trademark on their logo and unique headstock, they seriously compromised and even circumvented that concern by licensing the production of their unique headstock and neck design to third party producers. They no doubt did this for financial gain to exploit the popularity of their guitars and the identifiable headstock design. And quite frankly, having played several aftermarket licensed Fender necks, at least one aftermarket manufacturer does a piss-poor job and has serious QC issues and design flaws. This scenario in and of itself undermines the supposed "concern" Fender could ever express toward the use of their headstock design and necks.
In an extreme case where someone is making Fender knock offs, not paying a licensing fee, and pasting a "Fender" wasterslide on the headstock, I can see where Fender would have a legitimate concern.
However, when I build a very nice Jazz or P bass, pay the licensing fee to Fender via the upcharge Warmoth surely passes on to me, I feel I have the right to call it what it is: A Fender headstock on a quality Fender neck bolted to a quality bass. If it walks like a Fender and quacks like a Fender, I will put a logo on it that says the word "Fender" if I so desire.
Hell will freeze over before I suffer any negative consequences greater than the high-brow lecture people are so eager to deliver on a talk forum on the internet.
Save the sermons folks.
If Fender Guitar Co. is so concerned about their trademark on their logo and unique headstock, they seriously compromised and even circumvented that concern by licensing the production of their unique headstock and neck design to third party producers. They no doubt did this for financial gain to exploit the popularity of their guitars and the identifiable headstock design. And quite frankly, having played several aftermarket licensed Fender necks, at least one aftermarket manufacturer does a piss-poor job and has serious QC issues and design flaws. This scenario in and of itself undermines the supposed "concern" Fender could ever express toward the use of their headstock design and necks.
In an extreme case where someone is making Fender knock offs, not paying a licensing fee, and pasting a "Fender" wasterslide on the headstock, I can see where Fender would have a legitimate concern.
However, when I build a very nice Jazz or P bass, pay the licensing fee to Fender via the upcharge Warmoth surely passes on to me, I feel I have the right to call it what it is: A Fender headstock on a quality Fender neck bolted to a quality bass. If it walks like a Fender and quacks like a Fender, I will put a logo on it that says the word "Fender" if I so desire.
Hell will freeze over before I suffer any negative consequences greater than the high-brow lecture people are so eager to deliver on a talk forum on the internet.
Save the sermons folks.
Yep. I spent about $1,800 getting top of the line parts from head to toe for this beast, and I could have gotten a Fender American Deluxe for less if I had so chosen. And as I said, I do have three other genuine American model Fenders.
If you want to have a civil difference of opinion, that's fine. But folks who want to slam me for putting a Fender decal on a bass that is made mostly of genuine Fender parts, has an officially licensed Fender replacement neck (Warmoth), and actually doesn't contain any parts except the pickups (the most common of all mods) that might not be found on some model Fender J Bass or another, can pretty much suck it.
If you want to have a civil difference of opinion, that's fine. But folks who want to slam me for putting a Fender decal on a bass that is made mostly of genuine Fender parts, has an officially licensed Fender replacement neck (Warmoth), and actually doesn't contain any parts except the pickups (the most common of all mods) that might not be found on some model Fender J Bass or another, can pretty much suck it.
It's a bass, not a BMW. If someone really wanted one so bad, they could get a used MIM for $250.
The amount of knowledge I've gained from this one thread makes being a member of TalkBass well worth it. I've learned that ethics and honesty are so yesterday!
Here's my theory - People who will lie about something so trivial as a freakin guitar will probably find it just as easy to lie in other aspects of their life and probably just can't be trusted in general.
I've also now compiled a list of all the people I will NEVER consider buying anything from should they list it here in the classifieds (Thanks!)
Justify away boys. I'm not going to tell you what you do is wrong because if you don't already know that, well, nothing anybody else says will matter anyway.
Enjoy your "Fender" guitars and thanks again for the heads up that you can't be trusted.
Here's my theory - People who will lie about something so trivial as a freakin guitar will probably find it just as easy to lie in other aspects of their life and probably just can't be trusted in general.
I've also now compiled a list of all the people I will NEVER consider buying anything from should they list it here in the classifieds (Thanks!)
Justify away boys. I'm not going to tell you what you do is wrong because if you don't already know that, well, nothing anybody else says will matter anyway.
Enjoy your "Fender" guitars and thanks again for the heads up that you can't be trusted.
You apparently missed what I said earlier, namely that I have not told ANYONE that this bass came from the Fender factory. In fact, I have been posting pics of all the parts in an album on Facebook as they came in. Nor is the bass going to be sold; I made it exactly like I wanted, and I plan on playing it for the rest of my life. I consider the decal to be a part of the look, and have been very open about the origins of the instrument with everyone I have talked to.
So, let me see if I understand this
1.) you spent more than you would for a Fender.
2.) You think it's better than a Fender.
3.) You want to put a Fender logo on it so people will think it's less of a guitar than it really is . . . ?
I'm so very confused.
No, I do not want people to think it's a Fender; I am quite proud of having assembled such a great bass. As I said, it is basically a tribute to the early 70's J Basses, and I simply consider the decal to be a part of the look. But I haven't told anyone that it's a genuine Fender; everyone I know is aware that it is not.
Here's my theory - Anyone as shallow and judgmental as you would be doing me a huge favor by steering well clear of my sale ads and auctions, here on TB and anywhere else for that matter.
I hope I'm at the top of your list.
General Electric just made a very astute observation on the "other" thread:
For a time, the Fender factory did make replacement necks with the "Fender" waterslide on it (sans "Precision," "Jazz," etc.) available for consumers.
Think about that. For the sake of this discussion, the only real difference between those Fender factory necks and a Warmoth neck is who put the decal on the headstock.
Question: If I put one of those Fender factory replacement necks (with the Fender logo) on an aftermarket body, modify it to taste, is it Fender bass? Or is it a TM violation? Does it put Fender at some financial risk?
And when I die, and I'm no longer there to explain it, and the bass gets passed around, is it a fraudulent bass? Is it taking money out of Fender's pocket?
I won't say anything about it being fraudulent or not. However it's not money out of Fender's pocket, because Fender doesn't make money off of used basses. They make money off of new basses.
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