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Fender decals on not-really-Fender basses

#241
GlennW said:
Sorry about that.

In all honesty, if I had to pick between right or wrong I'd choose "wrong". That's just my opinion.

But when this fake decal for personal enjoyment/use is put into perspective, it's really no big deal. It might be tacky, juvenile, etc...but those are just opinions, as well cool, or a nice finishing touch, etc are differing opinions.

I don't know the specifics of the intellectual property laws.

I am pretty sure (from watching Judge Judy) that in order for there to be a case, there has to be damage of some sort.

Which prompts the question, "What's the damage to Fender if someone sticks a fake Fender decal on his bass?"
The answer is zero, unless Fender can prove damages.

So if there's no damage, there's no "real" crime. I know that statement isn't true because if you run a stop sign there's still a crime (or traffic violation) whether or not it resulted in an accident.

So I figure it this way...if it's Fender's intellectual property it's up to them to protect it. Maybe if they really went after the fake decal guys they could take them to court and the judge might make the fake decal guys remove the decals, but it doesn't matter because Fender has better things to do. If Fender doesn't care, why should we?

I also think running stop signs (even when no one's around) is a much more serious offense.
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Thanks!

I guess, to me, it's just not a legal damages issue.

Btw, Fender HAS shut down some online decal merchants. It takes so much time & there are so many eBay & fly-by-night decallers that they can't reasonably police it all.

I think that buying a fake decal is disrespectful to the owner of the trademark & to those who directly or indirectly benefit from that trademark. In the recording industry, we see a fraction of sales than before file sharing - does that mean every downloader should get litigated? Obviously not. But, an illegal downloader is willfully disrespecting (and even stealing) from the holders of the rights to that music. It's a new norm in this century, sure, but it saddens those of us who have made things that people feel they can 'help themselves' to.

Now, of course, that's an apples to oranges comparison - just like the numerous car analogies. Still, isn't it just a little sad?
 
#243
scotch said:
People who actually invest & make things care.
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If you made, for example, a warmouth bass, or a franken-bass and you want to put a Fender logo on it, then thats fine, just don't advertise it as Fender if you are going to sell it. It's one thing if you do it because it's all your bass and you want to do whatever you want with it, just don't lie to people about it if they ask. And DEFINITELY do not try to sell it as a Fender. I really don't see the harm if you are just building your own bass and like how it looks.

I want to build a bass and get a Fender logo that says "Flounder" instead.
 
#244
Maybe this example illustrates my point best (and is true to boot):

I have developed a couple of bass guitar hardware ideas that I think are marketable. The ideas are fairly easy to manufacture & not expensive. I have considered patenting them & pursuing production and marketing.

The biggest thing stopping me, honestly, is the exact "who cares" attitude expressed in this very thread! The ideas I have are easily copy-able and there's nothing stopping folks (particularly the successful Chinese knock-off industry) from copying my designs and even copying any branding that I develop. I'd end up spending more resources defending patents and trademarks than actually making things! (check out the youtube clip of Jerzy Drozd coming across a NAMM booth full of Drozd Chinese knock-offs!)

This is, of course, nothing new in design. But the overwhelmingly ubiquitous "who cares" attitude by communities like talkbass regarding any respect for intellectual property - coupled with the internet age where anybody can sell anything at any time with little to no accountability - makes such a venture entirely unattractive to me.
 
#246
LOL, oh man this thread is ridiculous. Why woud you care what other people put on their own basses. I've done it, and when sold it I was 100% honest about what it actually was. Im sure there are some deusch bags trying to pass them off as genuine Fender instruments but you cant just put everyone in that same category and call everyone dorks and dishonest.
 
#248
ModulusQ5-122 said:
LOL, oh man this thread is ridiculous. Why woud you care what other people put on their own basses. I've done it, and when sold it I was 100% honest about what it actually was. Im sure there are some deusch bags trying to pass them off as genuine Fender instruments but you cant just put everyone in that same category and call everyone dorks and dishonest.
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Read my above posts. You're missing an entire set of arguments entirely. I haven't called anybody dorks or dishonest either.
 
#251
Pilgrim said:
A fake is a fake is a fake.

A convincing fake is an opportunity for another owner down the line to cheat a buyer.

No way around it. That's the truth.
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That may be the case but that says nothing about the integrity and honesty of the one who originally applied it. If he/she was honest about what they were selling, once it's sold, that person can do whatever they want with it.
 
#252
treekiller said:
Ok, to open the can o' worms a bit more here are a couple more examples and tell me if I'm wrong:

Ex. 1) I have a MIM Jazz that had/has a fretless neck, but I wanted a fretted P neck for it and ended up with an Allparts maple P replacement neck. Other than the neck and the replacement tuners(Schallers) it has all the original Fender parts(body, p-ups, etc.) As far as I'm concerned, it's still a Fender bass and has a Fender decal. I would never consider selling it without disclosing that information, am I still being dishonest?

Ex. 2) I have an Am. Std. Jazz, but preferred the P neck so I bought an Am. Std. P neck from an online "chop shop". It still has the original MIA P decal, even though it is a Jazz bass. Should the decal be left intact or changed to reflect this?

(BTW, I still have both original necks for these basses.)

Ex. 3) This is hypothetical, suppose I bought another Fender P neck and pieced together a Precision bass from aftermarket parts. Does the fact it has the original Fender decal suddenly make it a Fender bass or should the decal be removed from the original Fender neck?

In the H-D world, there are a lot of motorcycles that may still have the original motor cases but all the internals are aftermarket replacement parts, or in some instances complete aftermarket motors have been used. Is it still a Harley???

Not looking for hate just wanting honest opinions, thanks!!! :cool:
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Not to be bitchin', but nobody has really answered my questions.... :cool:
 
#254
The OP might have seen my post the other day about the Squier body/Mighty Mite neck/Schaller tuners/Fender pickups-&-everything-else bass which I recently had built, and the pirated Fender logo on the headstock (which I applied myself, FYI).

All I can say is that I can see both sides of this issue. I was one of the last holdouts in the digital music wars, and was so honest that I started learning songs from YouTube (instead of buying the music) only about four years ago. I've never used illegal music sites. This headstock is the first and probably only time I'll do that. I was feeling a bit naughty-- what can I say? :rolleyes: I think I was mostly fascinated by the challenge of applying the decal as impeccably as I could. (A craftsmanship issue.) I play an SX bass proudly, without duct tape on the headstock.

I do feel that were I to sell it (being honest all the while), I wouldn't be responsible for the next seller's behavior. Again, however, I can see both sides.
 
#258
treekiller said:
Really? Ok, then please explain the other two scenarios.... :cool:
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It is not reasonalbe, nor does anyone expect you to remove the Fender decal from your neck because it's on a non-Fender body. NOBODY does that, nor should they.

But that isn't what this issue is about. It's about people putting counterfeit Fender decals on their non-Fender basses to make themselves feel less self conscious about what instrument they're playing.
 
#260
smcd said:
It is not reasonalbe, nor does anyone expect you to remove the Fender decal from your neck because it's on a non-Fender body. NOBODY does that, nor should they.

But that isn't what this issue is about. It's about people putting counterfeit Fender decals on their non-Fender basses to make themselves feel less self conscious about what instrument they're playing.
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If it is simply a case of being self-conscious then they need to just grow a pair. It's dumb to do it due to fear of getting made fun of.
 

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