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Fender decals on not-really-Fender basses
- Thread starter Habilis
- Start date
I have 2 Squier basses. I would not change the decals.
Not on some high horse here, just don't see the point. On top of the fact that mine are older MIJ models, just not a reason to do it besides masturbatory glee-searching.
I know it's a Squier, I'd have to disclose that upon sale (which I don't intend to sell, but...), it's work to change out the decals in the first place... Worry + work + work...
I'd rather play bass.
I bought my Squiers because they are really good basses that sound and play well, are reasonably open to modification, were priced right, and offer a lower theft profile than a Fender. To most people, Squier equals crap.
I know they're often wrong.
I'm not trying to fool anybody.
I'd rather play bass.
Y'all discuss, argue, pontificate, cajole, preach, etc., all you like.
I'd rather play bass.
wraub
Not on some high horse here, just don't see the point. On top of the fact that mine are older MIJ models, just not a reason to do it besides masturbatory glee-searching.
I know it's a Squier, I'd have to disclose that upon sale (which I don't intend to sell, but...), it's work to change out the decals in the first place... Worry + work + work...
I'd rather play bass.
I bought my Squiers because they are really good basses that sound and play well, are reasonably open to modification, were priced right, and offer a lower theft profile than a Fender. To most people, Squier equals crap.
I know they're often wrong.
I'm not trying to fool anybody.
I'd rather play bass.
Y'all discuss, argue, pontificate, cajole, preach, etc., all you like.
I'd rather play bass.
wraub
I'm a living room rocker. I haven't played out in years. So if I put together a parts bass and just for kicks I put a Fender logo on it, who exactly am I misleading on the performing stage? Please answer accurately because you spoke as if you had all the answers.
When I referred to the 'performing stage' I was referring to going onstage in a music venue, not home playing, though I suppose even having a fake decal bass at home is no different to anywhere else. If you get a buzz from looking at your bass because you have stuck a different name on it.... I just don't get it.
Ok, to open the can o' worms a bit more here are a couple more examples and tell me if I'm wrong:
Ex. 1) I have a MIM Jazz that had/has a fretless neck, but I wanted a fretted P neck for it and ended up with an Allparts maple P replacement neck. Other than the neck and the replacement tuners(Schallers) it has all the original Fender parts(body, p-ups, etc.) As far as I'm concerned, it's still a Fender bass and has a Fender decal. I would never consider selling it without disclosing that information, am I still being dishonest?
Ex. 2) I have an Am. Std. Jazz, but preferred the P neck so I bought an Am. Std. P neck from an online "chop shop". It still has the original MIA P decal, even though it is a Jazz bass. Should the decal be left intact or changed to reflect this?
(BTW, I still have both original necks for these basses.)
Ex. 3) This is hypothetical, suppose I bought another Fender P neck and pieced together a Precision bass from aftermarket parts. Does the fact it has the original Fender decal suddenly make it a Fender bass or should the decal be removed from the original Fender neck?
In the H-D world, there are a lot of motorcycles that may still have the original motor cases but all the internals are aftermarket replacement parts, or in some instances complete aftermarket motors have been used. Is it still a Harley???
Not looking for hate just wanting honest opinions, thanks!!!
Ex. 1) I have a MIM Jazz that had/has a fretless neck, but I wanted a fretted P neck for it and ended up with an Allparts maple P replacement neck. Other than the neck and the replacement tuners(Schallers) it has all the original Fender parts(body, p-ups, etc.) As far as I'm concerned, it's still a Fender bass and has a Fender decal. I would never consider selling it without disclosing that information, am I still being dishonest?
Ex. 2) I have an Am. Std. Jazz, but preferred the P neck so I bought an Am. Std. P neck from an online "chop shop". It still has the original MIA P decal, even though it is a Jazz bass. Should the decal be left intact or changed to reflect this?
(BTW, I still have both original necks for these basses.)
Ex. 3) This is hypothetical, suppose I bought another Fender P neck and pieced together a Precision bass from aftermarket parts. Does the fact it has the original Fender decal suddenly make it a Fender bass or should the decal be removed from the original Fender neck?
In the H-D world, there are a lot of motorcycles that may still have the original motor cases but all the internals are aftermarket replacement parts, or in some instances complete aftermarket motors have been used. Is it still a Harley???
Not looking for hate just wanting honest opinions, thanks!!!
This discussion kind of reminds me of some Epiphone owners ( I own 2) who bitch of the headstock shape being different from Gibsons( I own 2 also) on the Les Pauls...why buy Squier, when you can save up a little more and get a MIM...which Fender( I own 3) has no problem putting their logo on a cheaper version( I own 1) of the USA model (I own none). but its wrong to put Fender on a Squier( I own 2)..Yep, makes perfect sense to me...
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but doesn't Fender already put their name on the Squier's?
Is Squier not licensed by Fender? Therefore by default is a licensed Fender product?
Is Squier not just another line offered from, & by Fender just as MIM, MIJ, and so on is?
I used to get annoyed at Craigslist adds where guys would list their Squiers as Fenders, but are they really being deceitful? They are Fenders.
Is it not the responsibility of the buyer to verify what they are buying is what it is? I can't think of one instance where a buyer should ever just take the sellers word for anything.
It's really not that hard to tell a Squier & a US Fender from one another when it's in your hands & you can feel the difference in Quality.
I have certain stipulations myself that will be deal breakers if I'm not allowed by the seller to check.
1. Being the removal of the pick guard.
It's just not worth it to me to take a chance and I let the seller know long before meeting I'll want to look, so far all have been completely cool with it.
2. The neck, if there's even a question about the headstock or fret board that looks wrong.
It takes all of about 5 extra minutes and requires minimal tools to do it. There really is no excuse for getting burned with a fake other than common sense. And maybe a lack of a set of balls to tell a seller to get lost and that you just don't trust him or his bass.
Edit: this applies to in person only. Online sight unseen is a whole different situation.
I have yet to take the chance and not sure I would.
Is Squier not licensed by Fender? Therefore by default is a licensed Fender product?
Is Squier not just another line offered from, & by Fender just as MIM, MIJ, and so on is?
I used to get annoyed at Craigslist adds where guys would list their Squiers as Fenders, but are they really being deceitful? They are Fenders.
Is it not the responsibility of the buyer to verify what they are buying is what it is? I can't think of one instance where a buyer should ever just take the sellers word for anything.
It's really not that hard to tell a Squier & a US Fender from one another when it's in your hands & you can feel the difference in Quality.
I have certain stipulations myself that will be deal breakers if I'm not allowed by the seller to check.
1. Being the removal of the pick guard.
It's just not worth it to me to take a chance and I let the seller know long before meeting I'll want to look, so far all have been completely cool with it.
2. The neck, if there's even a question about the headstock or fret board that looks wrong.
It takes all of about 5 extra minutes and requires minimal tools to do it. There really is no excuse for getting burned with a fake other than common sense. And maybe a lack of a set of balls to tell a seller to get lost and that you just don't trust him or his bass.
Edit: this applies to in person only. Online sight unseen is a whole different situation.
I have yet to take the chance and not sure I would.
Anyone advertising a Squier as a "Fender" is pulling a fast one. You know that.
The responsibility for detecting fraud is always on the buyer. Thus the phrase "let the buyer beware". But what this is really about isn't as much fraud, but the cheesy act of swapping a budget logo for a high-priced logo.
The responsibility for detecting fraud is always on the buyer. Thus the phrase "let the buyer beware". But what this is really about isn't as much fraud, but the cheesy act of swapping a budget logo for a high-priced logo.
smcd said:
No doubt, a person doing it to sell for a higher return is definitely pulling a fast one.
I'm more arguing for the hobbyist going for that authentic look of a vintage bass.
I honestly don't see the point in changing the decal unless it's in line with a full overhaul to mimic the 60's and 70's look.
In this case, such as a relic I totally get wanting everything to look authentic, but only if it's for personal enjoyment.
Or it's a builder doing a build for a customer who wants that look.
Most people can't afford a real vintage, but want the feel, I personally see nothing wrong with that.
But for every reason of good I could also come up with plenty of bad, as with anything in life.
It's really just a matter of how you choose to look at it.
My guess would be that the great majority of members here don't have the slightest bad intent in what they're doing. I personally haven't done it yet, but should the opportunity present itself to do so I'd have no second thoughts.
Actually slowly doing a refinish now to a Squier standard Jazz.
No idea what's going on the headstock but even a Squier decal at this point would be misrepresenting as its been completely reshaped and will be refinished. It's no longer what Squier built at all.
Maybe I'll call it a Squinder or something.
In the H-D world, there are a lot of motorcycles that may still have the original motor cases but all the internals are aftermarket replacement parts, or in some instances complete aftermarket motors have been used. Is it still a Harley???
Not looking for hate just wanting honest opinions, thanks!!!
i've stripped off all the HD logos & whatnot off my scoot
but maybe one of youse guys can print me one up & i'll paste it on me SUMO
think it'll pass as the real deal ?
Since we are clearly splitting little semantic hairs here, how about this...
I have a real Fender neck. I wanted a matching headstock to finish my "late '66" Jazz bass, so I stripped the face of the headstock. I sprayed Shoreline Gold over it and re-applied the exact same type of decal.
How does that work?
That's totally permissible - it's just refinishing (nice job, too).
You just wanted an excuse to show your bikes, I saw what you did there.
Nice bikes, don't blame you one bit.
busted,, thanks
Just as an aside, it was fairly recently someone here on TB tried to pass off what was obviously (to me, anyway)a $300 Squier VM J with a Fender decal as a Fender '70's Reissue Jazz, for which he was asking well over $1000. (something like $1200-$1500)
I'm pretty sure that's where the proverbial "line" should be drawn... it has become fraud.
I have 7 Fender P basses, one of them being a 1972. I don't like when I see people try to rip off a Fender and try to resell it. On my 72, the neck ended up twising and my luther couldn't do anything about it. I sold it on eBay as an "as is" twisted neck and bought a warmoth neck.
I was originally against putting a decal on it, but when I assembled the instrument, something didn't look right. It just looked awkward without the Fender logo.
I ended up putting a date appropriate decal on it and I'm happy with the way it looks. I consider it a Fender, my father put an aftermarket engine in his 70's Ford Mustang, but it's still a Ford Mustang.
If I were ever to sell, I would defiantly say it has a warmoth neck. The decal makes the instrument authentic looking, in my scenario, an authentic part was not affordable.
My Bass is still a Fender in my opinion.
I was originally against putting a decal on it, but when I assembled the instrument, something didn't look right. It just looked awkward without the Fender logo.
I ended up putting a date appropriate decal on it and I'm happy with the way it looks. I consider it a Fender, my father put an aftermarket engine in his 70's Ford Mustang, but it's still a Ford Mustang.
If I were ever to sell, I would defiantly say it has a warmoth neck. The decal makes the instrument authentic looking, in my scenario, an authentic part was not affordable.
My Bass is still a Fender in my opinion.
In order for something to be illegal there has to be a law against it and punishment prescribed. I do not believe that there is a law against you drawing a Fender logo on your own Tshirt or putting a Fender logo on a bass that isn't one if it belongs to you.
I am not here to debate whether there is some ethical or moral dilemma on the line, but rather if there is a statute on the books which establishes such an activity to be a crime. I don't believe that to be the case. Show me and I will stand corrected.
Please note that I am not saying that it isn't possible that it's illegal; The United States of America (the land of the free) holds the distinction of being the country where there is the highest number of laws prescribing jail time and/or fines, but in this narrow case I do not believe there is a violation of an existing law.
This fake decal stuff is sort of like people taking the 68-72 Chevelles and trying to make them SS's.
If a guy puts a few SS touches and a different air cleaner sticker on his Chevelle...well, that's his business. You can dig it, call him a poseur dweeb, or be indifferent about it. Who cares?
If the guy tries to sell it as a Chevelle SS, that's fraud.
Buyer beware.
The world is full of crooks and dishonest people. This is nothing new.
The world is also full of people who are quick to pass judgement about other people and stuff which aren't any of their business.
If a guy puts a few SS touches and a different air cleaner sticker on his Chevelle...well, that's his business. You can dig it, call him a poseur dweeb, or be indifferent about it. Who cares?
If the guy tries to sell it as a Chevelle SS, that's fraud.
Buyer beware.
The world is full of crooks and dishonest people. This is nothing new.
The world is also full of people who are quick to pass judgement about other people and stuff which aren't any of their business.
