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Fender finally dropping silly MSRP (list) pricing?

Carvin pricing is even shadier. They show you three prices! List price, street price and "sale" price! What a sham.

One of the reasons I'll never buy a Carvin direct/new. Their assumption that the buyer is a person who thinks they're getting a decent bass at a bargain is only 50% based in reality. Their insistence on shoving the "skip the middle man" and "made in USA" down peoples throats would be at least marginally justified if you were actually getting more for your money. Anything that would put them at a competitive level with their production line competition is an up charge, and they act like you're getting a Vinny Fodera master build.
 
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One of the reasons I'll never buy a Carvin direct/new. Their assumption that the buyer is a person who thinks they're getting a decent bass at a bargain is only 50% based in reality. Their insistence on shoving the "skip the middle man" and "made in USA" down peoples throats would be at least marginally justified if you were actually getting more for your money. Anything that would put them at a competitive level with their production line competition is an up charge, and they act like you're getting a Vinny Fodera master build.

I'm not a Carvin fanboy, but iirc you can get an American Made neck through bass from them for well under $1000.

That's a pretty good price, more for your money than Fender, who does not offer an Am NT in their non-Cs lines, iirc.
 
An MSRP is actually required by the government. If the new slang is another word for the same thing - it's just that - another wording. MSRP's we developed as a max allowable price that can be charged for a product. It doesn't matter if it's guitars or automobiles. It's intent is to prevent charging one person one price and another a wildly higher price.

Are you located in the United States? If so, I think you may misunderstand the history of our antitrust laws, price fixing, and how/why MSRP came about. MSRP is not required by law, nor was it invented to create a maximum allowable price. Quite the opposite, in fact, it was designed my manufacturers to create an appearance of a certain value, irrespective of actual retail sales price (or actual value, for that matter).

Vertical price restrictions (price limits mandated by manufacturers for retailers) have long been a controversial topic in US trade and antitrust law. Horizontal price fixing (collusion between retailers or manufacturers to fix prices at certain levels) has long been illegal. However, up until a few years ago, certain forms of vertical price restriction were also considered illegal under the Sherman Antitrust Act. Manufacturers created the MSRP as a way to "suggest", but not mandate, a retail product price that they would like to maintain in the marketplace. It's a price the manufacturer can advertise that leaves (often considerable) room above retailer/reseller cost for retailers/resellers to make a profit. In the case of Fender, their MSRP has long been well above typical retail and online music shop profit margins--so far above as to have become an imaginary number, in fact (as we have seen).

So no, the government doesn't mandate any sort of MSRP. Manufacturers, however, including many of the ones we know and love, like Sony, Bose, Mesa, Yamaha and many others, still assert control over vertical pricing through the use of minimum and maximum RPMs (retail price maintenance). Most commonly, they use minimum RPM as a "whip" to keep retailers in line, "punishing" them if they *advertise* (but not necessarily sell) at prices below minimum RPM (effectively below MSRP) by dropping them (i.e. terminating their reseller agreement). Any of you who have tried to negotiate a better price on equipment from these manufacturers in a retail store knows what I mean.

So how meaningful is MSRP? It's not binding (hence the word "suggested"), and as illustrated by Fender's move, MSRP is only meaningful if retailers hew to it, and if the economics of the situation allow it to be meaningful. You and also someone else mentioned MSRP of cars vs. musical equipment. I think that's a useful illustration for the "meaningfulness" of MSRP. I would say that overall cost of production for a guitar and for most consumer electronics is significantly less (per unit) than the cost of production of a car. Cars are bigger, heaver, with larger and more complex parts, and require more people and larger, more expensive machinery to produce a smaller quantity of units. There are more factors that drive both supply and demand of cars, and therefore prices can fluctuate well below, and at times well above, the car manufacturer's MSRP. As someone who was once hot to buy an "inexpensive" Mazda Miata when they first came out, I can attest to this (it still hurts to think about the prices dealers were asking - wayyyy above MSRP!).

Guitars, amps, and most consumer electronics, on the other hand, don't tend to run into (as many of) these issues. They are small, cheap (comparatively), easy/quick to produce with far lower overhead overall. When's the last time you heard of a massive luthier's union strike slowing down guitar production, driving down supply and driving up demand? You don't. Typically any uptick in demand is temporary (people love a product and buy the initial quantities out immediately, or in the case of electronics, parts are temporarily in short supply). Therefore, in this case, MSRP is just a "magic number", and street price is the only price that matters.

I, for one, am glad to see Fender drop their massively inflated MSRP, simply because it saves me a trip from Fender's beautifully-designed web site to MF or GC's crappier website, and more clicks to find the "real" price (or the mental calculation of subtracting 25-33%, anyway).
 
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My advice to you? Quit trying to protect an imaginary grandma.

I could not agree more with this statement. I'm coming into this thread over a month late, but many of the assertions and complaints about MSRP vs. actual pricing (and vs. cost) here are based on naivete regarding the business and positing hypothetical cases that are not common real-world scenarios. If you know someone who paid full Fender MSRP (in the last 10-15 years) for a guitar, please get them into an assisted living facility ASAP. Or give me their number so I can sell them some stuff! The rise of the always-connected consumer has largely eliminated the utility of high MSRPs for retailers, and virtually guaranteed reasonable (and well-known) MAP pricing will be available from multiple sources, both online and bricks-and-mortar.
 
I'm not a Carvin fanboy, but iirc you can get an American Made neck through bass from them for well under $1000.

That's a pretty good price, more for your money than Fender, who does not offer an Am NT in their non-Cs lines, iirc.
Nah. They start around $1000...but I could get a NT Ibanez or Peavey for well under that & the build quality will be just as good. MIA means SFA in today's quality.
 

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