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Fender pre-CBS Club: pics mandatory!

Pearloid was in the fall of 1964 (October-November). Since Fender was taken over by CBS on January 5th, the following months their entire warehouse was slayed of old stock. Thus instruments from those months could have specs from earlier years. There are Fender Jaguars from 1965 with a slab fretboard and clay dots in the wide pre 1964-spacing, Fender amps with mismatched potmeters,... It's not uncommon for Fenders from 1965 to have bodies/necks from pre-CBS years, with 1965 stamps, or doubled stamps (65 stamps on top of 63 stamps for example, with 1963 specs)
 
Pearloid was in the fall of 1964 (October-November). Since Fender was taken over by CBS on January 5th, the following months their entire warehouse was slayed of old stock. Thus instruments from those months could have specs from earlier years. There are Fender Jaguars from 1965 with a slab fretboard and clay dots in the wide pre 1964-spacing, Fender amps with mismatched potmeters,... It's not uncommon for Fenders from 1965 to have bodies/necks from pre-CBS years, with 1965 stamps, or doubled stamps (65 stamps on top of 63 stamps for example, with 1963 specs)
Thanks, before I pulled the neck off for the first time I always thought it was a '64 since it looked identical to one, was surprised that it said May 65. The pots are '64. Jim
 
Do you know the neck date month on the '65? I have a May 65 with clay dots, L series, always wondered when in'65 they started using the pearloid dots. Thanks, Jim

Jim, mine has a March 65 neck stamp, L series, and 6512 pots. Very, very cool that your 65 has clay dots :cool:
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Pearloid was in the fall of 1964 (October-November). Since Fender was taken over by CBS on January 5th, the following months their entire warehouse was slayed of old stock. Thus instruments from those months could have specs from earlier years. There are Fender Jaguars from 1965 with a slab fretboard and clay dots in the wide pre 1964-spacing, Fender amps with mismatched potmeters,... It's not uncommon for Fenders from 1965 to have bodies/necks from pre-CBS years, with 1965 stamps, or doubled stamps (65 stamps on top of 63 stamps for example, with 1963 specs)

Thanks Mr.Fingers for explaining the inconsistencies that show up in 1965... very helpful :thumbsup:
 
Jim, mine has a March 65 neck stamp, L series, and 6512 pots. Very, very cool that your 65 has clay dots :cool:
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Thanks Mr.Fingers for explaining the inconsistencies that show up in 1965... very helpful :thumbsup:
Thanks, yeah sounds pretty much like it was just the luck of the draw, whoever was reaching in the stack of necks in the wherehouse that day:hyper:On the subject of dots does anyone know if the side dots were normally pearl or clay, my side dots look to be pearl but with clay center dots. Maybe it's a dot transitional :thumbsup: Jim
 
It indeed is. Claydots normally have clay sidedots (in the 50/50 spacing, so drilled on the seam between fretboard & shaft wood), pearloid has pearloid sidedots (also in the 50/50). Except in late '64/early '65 (pearloid facedots with clay sidedots is way more common than the other way around, if it even happened).
 
It indeed is. Claydots normally have clay sidedots (in the 50/50 spacing, so drilled on the seam between fretboard & shaft wood), pearloid has pearloid sidedots (also in the 50/50). Except in late '64/early '65 (pearloid facedots with clay sidedots is way more common than the other way around, if it even happened).
Man, you know everything, if you haven't written a book on the subject you should. So I just took out a magnifying glass and looked at the side dots more closely and indeed they are also clay. Maybe my neck was at the bottom of the stack or something, not complaining! Thanks again, Jim
 
FYI this just popped up on our local CL: 1961 refinished P Bass with appraisal from Gruhn's. I'm not the seller, nor do I know who it is...just thought I'd share it here.
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Pearloid was in the fall of 1964 (October-November). Since Fender was taken over by CBS on January 5th, the following months their entire warehouse was slayed of old stock. Thus instruments from those months could have specs from earlier years. There are Fender Jaguars from 1965 with a slab fretboard and clay dots in the wide pre 1964-spacing, Fender amps with mismatched potmeters,... It's not uncommon for Fenders from 1965 to have bodies/necks from pre-CBS years, with 1965 stamps, or doubled stamps (65 stamps on top of 63 stamps for example, with 1963 specs)

Mr.Fingers, you have me looking even closer at my dot markers. Have a look at the three photos I posted previously (below). The 1963 is very clearly clay. The 1966 is very clearly pearloid. But the 1965 doesn't have the pearloid sparkle, nor is it clay. Was there another transitional dot material used?

Just sharing a little rosewood love :smug: One true pre-CBS, and two 'transitional years'

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1963 Jazz with clay dots

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1965 Jazz with pearloid dots

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Early 1966 Jazz with pearloid dots and binding
 
That '61 looks gorgeous. Was the neck refinished? It's just at the heel of the neck the darker patches look like coating on a coating so to speak. The back of the neck isn't as worn as you might expect it to be.

Davo
 
Mr.Fingers, you have me looking even closer at my dot markers. Have a look at the three photos I posted previously (below). The 1963 is very clearly clay. The 1966 is very clearly pearloid. But the 1965 doesn't have the pearloid sparkle, nor is it clay. Was there another transitional dot material used?
I noticed that too, doesn't have that swirl effect as the '66. Jim
 
FYI this just popped up on our local CL: 1961 refinished P Bass with appraisal from Gruhn's. I'm not the seller, nor do I know who it is...just thought I'd share it here.
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I was just looking at that bass today on eBay (where seller has bidding opening at $5,000). I have an extensive collection of Custom Shop and vintage Precision basses. They are all original.

I don't know that I want to buy a refin., as I have yet to cross that bridge. However, I find this bass beautiful. Not sure exactly what color it is, but it's a nice looking bass at a minimum.
 
Just a 100% original 1959. The skinny, however, is that it is an extremely good sounding specimen at that. In fact, I strongly suspect that it doesn't get any better than this sound-wise, and that is what I buy a bass for. I'm not a collector. As you know, these '57 - '59 P-basses are very, very rare (I think there even are only 2 or 3 videos on YouTube showing the real thing, the rest are all CS attempts, or more tragical reissues ;-) ). If you are lucky enough to find one that is for sale, it is not a logical conclusion that is a good one. I had a very good '66 that sounded better than most '62's. The (wood) craftsmanship on '50s Fenders shows slightly more care if you ask me. You hear that in tone, and feel it in resonance. This one has the leveled magneto p/u's, and an incredible neck - which as you know varied widely in those 3 years before rosewoods fretboards came in. It is not especially thin, D/C-like, but has a great (early '60s?) feel and the entire bass therefore has been played in extraordinarily well over the years, as all the mojo testifies. But there is still more than enough lacquer and fret beef left for some more wear from a couple of years of playing by yours truly. All in all, it really is quite a special instrument - I am still in awe and couldn't have fathomed that a bass from this era could make such a huge difference from later or worse samples. I am not saying this to brag, but rather as a serious warning in general when buying vintage guitars. A good seller has a reputation and will never risk sending you crap, so it is possible to 'order' one from Gbase or what have you. But the best way to find your ideal '59 is to search, play, buy, sell, and compare for years and then get lucky. Most good ones are all the safe property of pro bassists, studios etc.. I was double lucky, for I have a pro friend who had already done all this research for himself, and who was willing to transfer guardianship over this one to me :-D . Had to sell that '66, a '71 Blueline SVT, and some smaller stuff for it, but man... what a sound.
 
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