Fender Rumble 350 to Two 410's?

[rydin4lifebass]

I currently have a Fender Rumble 350 Head (350W at 4 ohms) paired with a Fender Rumble 410 cab. I’d like to add another Fender Rumble 410 cab which I understand can be done. Can I just run two lines from my amp (one to each cab)? If I understand correctly, I’d then be pushing 175W at 8 ohms to each cab. Even though the wattage to each cab would be less, I would have more volume due to doubling the amount of air that’s being moved? I know this has been discussed a lot but I’m not good with electronics at all so I just want to be sure I understand this properly.

Amp:
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Cab:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Bass_Pounder]

That cab is 4 ohms...............

You cannot add another cab, as you are already at the amps minimum impedance.

*IF* your current cab is 8 ohms, then you can add another matching 8 ohm cab.

 

[RickenBoogie]

+1 you are already @ 4 ohms, which is the minimum impedance for the amp. No 2nd cab. If your 410 was 8 ohms, you could add another.

 

[rydin4lifebass]

And this is why I asked the question! Thanks guys! So my options would be to get a 2 ohm amp and a second 4 ohm cab or get two 8 ohm cabs to handle the four ohm load?

 

[Jim Carr]

Amps that can handle 2 ohm loads are generally more expensive, and certainly heavier, due to their architecture. Typically, the used two channel power amps made for PA systems that often get repurposed around here for bass are a good bet (lead sleds).

There is a list of 2 ohm capable mono heads compiled by TBer "the dude." You can find it here: http://www.3ms.com/bass/2ohms.pdf

Here is some general OHM info: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/ohms-faq.144244/

 

[rydin4lifebass]

Another question for you guys...the amp has two output jacks ("4 ohm min 350W total output" under one and "parallell speaker out" under the other) and the cab has two input jacks, both labeled as "parallel input"...Why would the amp and cab have two sets of inputs/outputs if I can't connect another cab? Right now I just have a cable from one of the amp outputs to one of the cab inputs.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Another question for you guys...the amp has two output jacks ("4 ohm min 350W total output" under one and "parallell speaker out" under the other) and the cab has two input jacks, both labeled as "parallel input"...Why would the amp and cab have two sets of inputs/outputs if I can't connect another cab? Right now I just have a cable from one of the amp outputs to one of the cab inputs.

Just because YOU can't add another cab doesn't mean other owners can't.

 

[TheEnthBass]

yeah, one just lists what the head can handle and one let's you know the two outputs are parallel so you know how to add the impedance of the cabs together, in parallel, so you don't assume they add in series. two 4 ohm loads in series is 8ohms, in parallel its two. If you could Daisy chain cabs in series you could run two 4 ohm cabs at half the power which would likely under power the two cabs making that a, useless option. it is something frequently done with stage monitors though.

 

[rydin4lifebass]

So, when you say "daisy chain" the cabs, you mean that one of the inputs on the cab is really an "input" and the other is an "output" to another cab.

 

[TheEnthBass]

So, when you say "daisy chain" the cabs, you mean that one of the inputs on the cab is really an "input" and the other is an "output" to another cab.

yes, that would connect them in series making two 4ohm cabs into an 8ohm load so your head would put out roughly half the Watts sharing over both cabs so in your case 175 per cab and your head works a bit harder because of it I think... I don't know if that has the same repercussions on solid state that it does on tubes but could cause problems I'm not sure. there must be a reason I've never seen anyone run their rig that way I'm just not knowledgeable enough to tell you why. who knows maybe not louder because of the decrease in power per cab, and under powering speakers can be an issue for the speakers too. never seen a 4x10 wired for that option either. usually wired with two pairs of series connected speakers connected in parallel... i think. so I'm.also not sure what you would have to do to each cab to connect in series but I'm sure it requires some modification.

 

[tedsalt]

Both the new Fender Rumble v3 410 and the Fender Bassman Neo 410 are 8 ohm cabs. You could sell your 4 ohm cab and pick up two of either of these (but I wouldn't mix 'em) and run both of them parallel. I run mine with the Rumble 500 head and love it!

 

[Groovy_Gravy]

yes, that would connect them in series making two 4ohm cabs into an 8ohm load so your head would put out roughly half the Watts sharing over both cabs so in your case 175 per cab and your head works a bit harder because of it I think... I don't know if that has the same repercussions on solid state that it does on tubes but could cause problems I'm not sure. there must be a reason I've never seen anyone run their rig that way I'm just not knowledgeable enough to tell you why. who knows maybe not louder because of the decrease in power per cab, and under powering speakers can be an issue for the speakers too. never seen a 4x10 wired for that option either. usually wired with two pairs of series connected speakers connected in parallel... i think. so I'm.also not sure what you would have to do to each cab to connect in series but I'm sure it requires some modification.

This is wrong. Daisy chain does not mean series!

It can be either or. In this case it is parallel just like 99% of amps out there

Also there is no such thing as under powering a cab

 

[TheEnthBass]

disagree, Daisy chain does mean series in the way I'm discussing, one out from an amp to a speaker, out from that speaker into antoher is connecting in series. you can do that cab to cab or monitor to monitor if you wire each load accordingly. that's like physics 095. most cabs are not set up for that and require wiring both cabs for that purpose. i do this when I run two monitors with the same mix off one channel of a power amp. under powering a speaker is certainly possible and results in at least poor fidelity but can also cause issues with voice coil when seriously under powered, it can result in a fused voice coil with prolonged use as the coil does not push and contract enough yielding a large amount of friction. noticeable over prolonged use in a sound system. it is at the very least going to sound like poopie if you under power and at worst not push the coil enough to generate any sound. in this instance it would likely involve wiring each speaker in each cab to allow wiring in series across the board and would only result in under powering each speaker to a point where they all sounded well off from anything desirable. if you can't under power a speaker, run a headphone jack from your ipod to 1k watt speaker and let me know how that sounds. that's just impossible. why? not enough power to drive ever voice coil otherwise we'd all be living off free energy by now.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

disagree, Daisy chain does mean series in the way I'm discussing, one out from an amp to a speaker, out from that speaker into antoher is connecting in series. you can do that cab to cab or monitor to monitor if you wire each load accordingly. that's like physics 095. most cabs are not set up for that and require wiring both cabs for that purpose. i do this when I run two monitors with the same mix off one channel of a power amp. under powering a speaker is certainly possible and results in at least poor fidelity but can also cause issues with voice coil when seriously under powered, it can result in a fused voice coil with prolonged use as the coil does not push and contract enough yielding a large amount of friction. noticeable over prolonged use in a sound system. it is at the very least going to sound like **** if you under power and at worst not push the coil enough to generate any sound. in this instance it would likely involve wiring each speaker in each cab to allow wiring in series across the board and would only result in under powering each speaker to a point where they all sounded well off from anything desirable. if you can't under power a speaker, run a headphone jack from your ipod to 1k watt speaker and let me know how that sounds. that's just impossible. why? not enough power to drive ever voice coil otherwise we'd all be living off free energy by now.

Wrong & WRONG

Please stop with the advice if you do not know what you are talking about as you can cause bad things to happen to other peoples equipment.

 

[TheEnthBass]

so what's wrong then, the definition of "Daisy chaining" referring to adding speakers in series, the way resistances add in series vs. parallel, or are you still trying to tell us you can't under power a speaker. give me some physics to stand on if you're going to say its wrong. bear in mind I'm not advising the op to rewire his cabs to add them in series I'm just pointing out that you can which is in fact often referred to add Daisy chaining, and that if wired properly the loads would add to 8ohms this is true, though not something you should do. I teach university physics and have been a musician for 20yrs. no question about that, if you disagree prove me wrong. your statement that a, speaker can't be underpowered is probably the silliest thing I've ever heard. explain that to us so we understand how to drive a high powered speaker with next to no power and still get a good sound out of it and save the world from using so much extra energy and ever musician from having to lug around large power amps.

 

[JimmyM]

disagree, Daisy chain does mean series in the way I'm discussing, one out from an amp to a speaker, out from that speaker into antoher is connecting in series. you can do that cab to cab or monitor to monitor if you wire each load accordingly. that's like physics 095.

No it's not, sorry. The overwhelming majority of daisy chain jacks on cabs are indeed parallel and not series. Look it up, then name me even one cab made in the last 30 years that has serial daisy chain jacks.

most cabs are not set up for that and require wiring both cabs for that purpose. i do this when I run two monitors with the same mix off one channel of a power amp. under powering a speaker is certainly possible and results in at least poor fidelity but can also cause issues with voice coil when seriously under powered, it can result in a fused voice coil with prolonged use as the coil does not push and contract enough yielding a large amount of friction. noticeable over prolonged use in a sound system. it is at the very least going to sound like **** if you under power and at worst not push the coil enough to generate any sound. in this instance it would likely involve wiring each speaker in each cab to allow wiring in series across the board and would only result in under powering each speaker to a point where they all sounded well off from anything desirable. if you can't under power a speaker, run a headphone jack from your ipod to 1k watt speaker and let me know how that sounds. that's just impossible. why? not enough power to drive ever voice coil otherwise we'd all be living off free energy by now.

Once again, totally myth. I have personally powered an Ampeg 810e with a B-15 head that does 25w RMS, and never had a problem with it whatsoever. No problems with voice coils, no problem with not generating any sound, no problems with poor fidelity, no nothing. Your iPod comparison is completely irrelevant because it's got a tiny tiny little amplifier that has just enough wattage to power a set of headphones but is useless as a power amp.

Whoever told you this information, never ever listen to another word they say, because they are 100% wrong.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

First off, daisy chaining is NOT connecting your cabs in series. It is using the "through" (in/out) on a cab to add another one. Those connections are PARALLEL (same as connecting to another output on an amp. To make a series connection, you need to make a specially designed cable or connection box.

Underpowering does not cause any damage or any problems. Speakers when they are tested are done at ONE WATT.

All this is covered in FAQ's

 

[TheEnthBass]

often times, Daisy chaining does refer to series, I had already started that they would need to be wired for that because bass cabs don't come set up that way so you just restated what I stated. under powering speakers often means driving amps to hard, under means clipping, clipping means square waves, square waves mean damage. I was taught this be a very well established engineer and I believe him. testing at 1W in a controlled setting is not by a long shot trying to push an amp to its max to a set of underpowered cabs on stage day in and day out. otherwise people might run cabs this way and they would come from the factory set to Daisy chain- in series- since you like to refer to any two things connected as Daisy chains. At the very least, you said there is "no such thing as under powering" look it up a little. Yes there is, yes it can damage when driving the amp, yes under powered speakers sound bad. So you rewrote my statement that you could wire cabs in series in order to get that load thanks for verifying what I said the first time, then said a bunch of non sense about it being ok to under power, which we both know is not true for a host of reasons I would hope. If not I'm selling my heads and I'll just get a mini to power my 8x10.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

often times, Daisy chaining does refer to series, I had already started that they would need to be wired for that because bass cabs don't come set up that way so you just restated what I stated. under powering speakers often means driving amps to hard, under means clipping, clipping means square waves, square waves mean damage. I was taught this be a very well established engineer and I believe him. testing at 1W in a controlled setting is not by a long shot trying to push an amp to its max to a set of underpowered cabs on stage day in and day out. otherwise people might run cabs this way and they would come from the factory set to Daisy chain- in series- since you like to refer to any two things connected as Daisy chains. At the very least, you said there is "no such thing as under powering" look it up a little. Yes there is, yes it can damage when driving the amp, yes under powered speakers sound bad. So you rewrote my statement that you could wire cabs in series in order to get that load thanks for verifying what I said the first time, then said a bunch of non sense about it being ok to under power, which we both know is not true for a host of reasons I would hope. If not I'm selling my heads and I'll just get a mini to power my 8x10.

WRONG

Please let everything that the "established engineer" told you fall out of your head.



If clipping was square waves that damages speakers, I guess synth players and distorted guitar players would be changing out speakers every show huh ? Let's not forget you listen to music on your home stereo and car that was recorded with square signals - better rush out and replace those too !

Again - please read the FAQ's.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

disagree, Daisy chain does mean series in the way I'm discussing, one out from an amp to a speaker, out from that speaker into antoher is connecting in series.

Where does that say special wiring or modifications are needed ?

Connecting from the amp to cab #1, then from cab #1 to cab #2 is indeed a parallel connection.