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Fender Rumble Club

Hello, fellow Rumblers!

I just came into a piece of totally useless but Rumble-related information.

Warning: No-one in their right mind would do this mod, which involves putting a $225 driver into a $300 100 watt combo. I'm sure there are more affordable options out there...


The amp has already been modded with a tilt-back foot, and a sealed, lined, and braced cab.

First impressions:

  • The last traces of the low-mid boom are gone.
  • The upper mids and treble have opened up nicely. It sounds more natural than adding a tweeter.
  • The baked-in vintage character is gone, but can be recovered by rolling off the upper mids and treble.
  • The amp is louder.
  • Unfortunately, the low end is also gone. Even the low E sounds hollow and unconvincing.
Etc .. Have removed some content
Steve ( @steve_rolfeca ) we discussed a while back this subject and I commented on the 'knuckle test' and the obvious resonances of the Rumble 500C and its cabinet I own. Since then have applied several layers of Dynamat to the side panels only, about 1/4" thick, the 'knuckle test' now reveals a nice dead thunk. Musically the lower registers changed in character where frequency doubling and boom is more nicely controlled and coherent.

Since then I have added a couple of small 'pollyfill' pillows inside the cab, the effect of this has reduced the 'on-axis' boom. I realise this has likely altered the cab tuning slightly but have used it in anger since without any problems. it's noteable the lower end fundamentals are much more clearly reproduced now. Very pleased and a worthwhile mod. :)
 
Linnin - I don't know what your problem is with the Subway amp, but it's quite disingenuous to make statements that are both disparaging to a product while being factually inaccurate about the representation between products. I don't care if you don't like the Subway amp, but I don't get your hostility on the topic, or towards a product, unless it's based on a lack of understanding of the technical basis behind all amp ratings.

Your statement about "Duty Cycle Voodoo Watts" does not take into account the fact that EVERY SINGLE class D amp (and most class AB/G/H amps as well) are also based on duty cycle. This would, based on what I know about the Fender Rumbles, include all of those as well. Just to clarify, I have no problem whatsoever with the Rumble amps, they are a great product from a great company.

There's a good reason for using duty cycle in all amps (including class D), because bass guitar signals are not, and can not be 100% duty cycle. That would equate to a signal with zero dynamics, and even the most demanding bass guitar application I am aware of includes at least 6dB of dynamics in any real world application. This would equate to a 25% duty cycle, which is twice as demanding as the typical 12.5% duty cycle used in pro audio and certification agency testing requirements. Given this, every amp that I am involved with is designed to well beyond 25% duty cycle and over >15 years of products I have not experienced any thermal or other shutdown protection issues with ANY of the products (including class AB and class D)

Just to clarify, the term continuous that is being used here is no more than a couple of seconds. "Continuous" is an incorrect, inaccurate term that was used. I have as much experience with the power module used in this amp as anybody else in the industry, I know for a FACT that this module under ANY condition can not deliver "1040 watts RMS" for more than a couple of seconds. The inverse time constant on the AC supply fuse alone (which can not be changed without voiding the UL recognition of the part) makes this an impossibility.

6.3A x 120V = 756VA (total power available at the "must carry" level of the fuse
756VA x .80% (@ 120V) = 604W (total audio power available on a continuous basis, assuming thermal shutdown doesn't occur)

Therefore, 1040 watts RMS can not ever be delivered on a continuous basis, but that's totally ok, because bass guitar is not a continuous signal.

Now, to see why duty cycle is used and why it's a valuable (and essential) tool, say we choose to use 25% as a threshold for acceptable duty cycle, the following modifier applies:

Take the limits of the AC fuse, and divide by the duty cycle, that would be the theoretical audio power available under 25% duty cycle conditions:

[604W/.25(%)] = 2416W RMS, the difference between the rated audio output and the continuous fused input are the boundary conditions.

Now, for reliability sake, we typically de-rate the fuse to 75% of rated values, so this becomes 604W x .75 = 453W maximum design input, resulting in 1812W audio out at 25% duty cycle. As long as rated output power at 25% duty cycle stays within the 1812W limits, the AC line fuse will be fine.

EVERY SINGLE part of the amplifier, the input common mode line filter, the input line frequency rectifier, the bridge switches, the power transformer, the high frequency rectifier, the class D bridge switches, the output integration filters all get analyzed in exactly the same way so that there are no weak links. This is not a specifically Mesa thing, it's not a Fender thing, it's not a Genz Benz thing or any other specific manufacturer thing. It's an industry thing, something that the ENTIRE industry has been practicing for at least 25 years that I know of, and it's to deliver a better quality, more reliable product to you players.
Allow me to translate. @Linnin - chill a bit, would you please just chill a bit...
 
Last night at a function centre.
Fender AVRI62P & Rumble 500C
20180206_202832.jpg
FB_IMG_1517922229330.jpg

Nice view and "stage" for the 1st set of acoustic stuff
 
Sorry in advance: I'm sure this has been discussed but I can't find search terms that will help me find it. For you guys who own the Rumble head, are there any interesting cabinet choices you would recommend by other brands? I'm specifically curious if there are 210s that would add a little clarity and articulation while being a nice complement to the Rumble tone.
 
Sorry in advance: I'm sure this has been discussed but I can't find search terms that will help me find it. For you guys who own the Rumble head, are there any interesting cabinet choices you would recommend by other brands? I'm specifically curious if there are 210s that would add a little clarity and articulation while being a nice complement to the Rumble tone.

Interesting question but, it begs another...have you tried and found that the Rumble 210's lack clarity and articulation?
 
Sorry in advance: I'm sure this has been discussed but I can't find search terms that will help me find it. For you guys who own the Rumble head, are there any interesting cabinet choices you would recommend by other brands? I'm specifically curious if there are 210s that would add a little clarity and articulation while being a nice complement to the Rumble tone.

Maybe check out Barefaced or Fearful, depending on your location.
 
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It looks like Fender is still fine-tuning their website presentation for the Stage 800 & Studio 40, but it appears to have an impressive feature set. Not yet available for pre-order in the US, but I've read first shipment is slated for sometime in March. Might be a slight stretch to see them state-side in March as Europe gets the first shipment, but that is not unusual.

With all the models and effects available on these, I'd imagine its taking a bit of extra time to develop high quality demonstration videos.

I am happy to wait for good videos/demos.

It would be great to have them done by working bassists (as primary instrument) and really focus on the usable features and options. Sometimes it is too tempting for marketers to focus on the really far out, wild tones that are impressive, but not useful in 90% of playing situations. I want to hear the pre-amps and cabs, ODs, comps, octave etc played finger style, pick and slap. Let me hear the DI vs a mic, show me the tuner (to see speed/accuracy and check the display)...walk me through the foot switch options and functionality..:-):-)
 
...There's a good reason for using duty cycle in all amps (including class D), because bass guitar signals are not, and can not be 100% duty cycle. ...even the most demanding bass guitar application I am aware of includes at least 6dB of dynamics... This would equate to a 25% duty cycle, which is twice as demanding as the typical 12.5% duty cycle used in pro audio and certification agency testing requirements...

...I know for a FACT that this module under ANY condition can not deliver "1040 watts RMS" for more than a couple of seconds. The inverse time constant on the AC supply fuse alone (which can not be changed without voiding the UL recognition of the part) makes this an impossibility.

...for reliability sake, we typically de-rate the fuse to 75% of rated values, so this becomes 604W x .75 = 453W maximum design input, resulting in 1812W audio out at 25% duty cycle. As long as rated output power at 25% duty cycle stays within the 1812W limits, the AC line fuse will be fine.

EVERY SINGLE part of the amplifier... ...all get analyzed in exactly the same way so that there are no weak links.

...It's an industry thing, something that the ENTIRE industry has been practicing for at least 25 years that I know of, and it's to deliver a better quality, more reliable product to you players.
Mind = Blown.

This is why I love it when industry figures with real engineering knowledge drop in to set us straight.

It’s humbling to realize that I can have a successful small repair business and mod classic tube amp circuits in a way that pleases my customers, without having a clue about the real relationships between AC input power and useable audio output.

Even technical types like myself are often wading around in a sea of misinformation, trying to figure out why we hear these large audible differences that aren’t explained by the usual published specs.
 
Steve ( @steve_rolfeca ) we discussed a while back this subject and I commented on the 'knuckle test' and the obvious resonances of the Rumble 500C and its cabinet I own. Since then have applied several layers of Dynamat to the side panels only, about 1/4" thick, the 'knuckle test' now reveals a nice dead thunk. Musically the lower registers changed in character where frequency doubling and boom is more nicely controlled and coherent.

Since then I have added a couple of small 'pollyfill' pillows inside the cab, the effect of this has reduced the 'on-axis' boom. I realise this has likely altered the cab tuning slightly but have used it in anger since without any problems. it's noteable the lower end fundamentals are much more clearly reproduced now. Very pleased and a worthwhile mod. :)
Cool! The Rumble cabinets definitely benefit from some acoustic damping.

I’m curious about the cost/performance ratio with using Dynamat, rather than mechanical stiffening.

Did you use smaller patches, or line the entire wall?

Also, do you have access to an accurate scale? I’m curious how much weight you added to your 500 combo...
 
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Also, do you have access to an accurate scale? I’m curious how much weight you added to your 500 combo...

This is a very good question, I would be interested in knowing also.

I have used Dynamat (and a German equivalent that I prefer) on many vehicles and it certainly adds to the weight. In the case of the Crossfire, the audio install added 50kg to the car (this also include speakers and cables etc. but no sub or other enclosures).
 
...For you guys who own the Rumble head, are there any interesting cabinet choices you would recommend by other brands? I'm specifically curious if there are 210s that would add a little clarity and articulation while being a nice complement to the Rumble tone.
I would also suggest that you spread your net a little wider.

A lot of the action in the cab market these days, revolves around new-tech drivers from Eminence and Faital. At the moment, there are some amazing 8’s, 12’s and 15’s being used in multi-driver bins by AudioKinesis, Barefaced, Bergantino, Genzler, Greenboy, Mesa and others.

There’s a bit of a vacuum at the moment when it comes to 10’s, as the numbers on similar-spec 10’s (like the 10” Eminence Kappalite) don’t add up as nicely.

If you want more articulation than the Rumble 2x10 without losing that warm, fat tone, you’re more likely to find it in a compact 1x12 or 1x15 with a good cone or horn mid at the moment.

Check some of these out:
Bass Array 12-3 (34lb)
Big Baby 2 (26lb)
Birdhouse 48 (35lb)
F112 (32-38lb)
Hathor 1203 (25lb)
Hathor 1533 (36lb)
Subway 112 (33lb)
Subway 115 (38lbj
Super Compact (23.5lb)

Also, I wouldn’t write off the Rumble 115 without at least giving it a try. You might be surprised at how it complements the 2x10...
 
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Cool! The Rumble cabinets definitely benefit from some acoustic damping.
Did you use smaller patches, or line the entire wall?
Also, do you have access to an accurate scale? I’m curious how much weight you added to your 500 combo...
Cut out single pieces nearly size of side walls, there's a step where the amp sits, just went for plain rectangular shapes. It was quite difficult to get in the there and line up, it not a perfect work of art in there but does the job. If I did it again would use smaller pieces for ease. Was considering the back panel too but decided not to go over the top. Why did I do this? I wasn't entirely happy with some aspects of the sound which pointed, to me, as cabinet resonances.

As said previous, the overall character is little changed but with far more rounded and subtle low end which seems to extend better in a less lumpy way, well, to my ears anyway.

As for weight, no idea, but it is heavier! I wouldn't say by a huge amount, a few pounds for sure.
 
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I would also suggest that you spread your net a little wider.

A lot of the action in the cab market these days, revolves around new-tech drivers from Eminence and Faital. At the moment, there are some amazing 8’s, 12’s and 15’s being used in multi-driver bins by AudioKinesis, Barefaced, Bergantino, Genzler, Greenboy, Mesa and others.

There’s a bit of a vacuum at the moment when it comes to 10’s, as the numbers on similar-spec 10’s (like the 10” Eminence Kappalite) don’t add up as nicely.

If you want more articulation than the Rumble 2x10 without losing that warm, fat tone, you’re more likely to find it in a compact 1x12 or 1x15 with a good cone or horn mid at the moment.

Check some of these out:
Bass Array 12-3 (34lb)
Big Baby 2 (26lb)
Birdhouse 48 (35lb)
F112 (32-38lb)
Hathor 1203 (25lb)
Hathor 1533 (36lb)
Subway 112 (33lb)
Subway 115 (38lbj
Super Compact (23.5lb)

Also, I wouldn’t write off the Rumble 115 without at least giving it a try. You might be surprised at how it complements the 2x10...

All great suggestions. I'm thinking that Genzler also put out a 210BASS ARRAY didn't they?
 
I have an idea I want to run past yall.

I'm setting up a pedal board for the first time ever. So far the only pedal I've ordered is a Turbo Tuner. I will be running an overdrive of some kind, still looking into that. Anyway, the idea was to mount my rumble head to a peddle board and use it as a DI, EQ, and compressor. (I seem to remember someone here saying it has a really good compressor built into it).

Will this work? Would I have to run a speaker of some kind if I did this or could I run it silent? The reason I'm interested in doing this is that I generally run my EQ flat and let the house do their thing, I only adjust it if they need me too and I have a really nice preamp on my bass for that anyway, the compressor on the rumble head if I remember correctly was stated to be as good as a rack grade unit and if this is true I don't think I will need a pedal mounted one, and it has a DI so I could skip that part as well.

Basically I would run bass -> tuner -> overdrive -> rumble head -> XLR out to sound board
 

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