Fender Rumble Club

[G-Dog]

... ... wondering if someone could give a informative post about the 2nd Order HPF that is on the Block Diagram for the Rumbles in between the Preamp and the Power Amplifier.
I looked in the Rumble Talks and didn’t find anything that actually gave the specifics of the 2nd Order HPF in the Rumbles. ... ...

IF you clicked the currently bottom-listed Rumble Talk about this built-in HPF then you've read the previous discussion and, IF you clicked the Rumble Club link at the bottom of that discussion then you've read all the significant posts I know of here on that subject. I would be happy to learn more and include it on the wiki.
.

... ... I did find some generic stuff about 2nd Order LPF and HPF filters. While interesting, it went into mathematical/theoretical stuff and did not really give much information that I found useful as a player. ... ...

You didn't find that here in the Rumble Club, did you? I don't recall that but, I may have missed it.
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... ... So given the fact that there is a 2nd Order HPF built into the Rumble, what exactly would be the benefit, or is there one, of having an additional HPF or HPF/LPF pedal? What would having one do that the built in HPF wouldn’t do.

An external HPF/LPF would have the advantage of external user controls that can be adjusted according to the user's judgement as to their effect on the sound in different venues and/or conditions, even moods. Like many things in music, the value of the HPF/LPF is in the ear of the beholder. Many feel strongly both ways. It is not for me to say that any are wrong. It is for each of us to follow our muse and make our own choices.

Sorry I cannot be more help.
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[Thundar]

Hey guys,

I purchased the Fender Rumble 200 a few days ago and just tried it out with my band (loud punk, think Social Distortion meets Rancid)... and man... I could barely hear that thing. It was embarrassing. It is a great sounding amp but it seems I could only use it for low volume or PA supported situations.

I tried a HPF, getting it off the ground, etc to no avail. It just doesn’t have that oomph I’m used to (I’ve been using a borrowed GK Backline 600 up to this point with cheap-ish Ampeg cabs).

What would get me to a place where I actually have some headroom instead of having to crank that thing all the way? An extension cab? A 500 combo? Should I just go a different route altogether?

Thanks in advance.

My 2 cents... at the minimum you are gonna need the Rumble 15 Ext cab.
If I were doing that kind of punk I would personally shoot for the Rumble 500 or 800 head, and then either a good 410 cab, or a 2x15.
I have the Rumble 500 combo and the 210 ext cab and its a nice lightweight compromise.

 

[Tad]

IF you clicked the currently bottom-listed Rumble Talk about this built-in HPF then you've read the previous discussion and, IF you clicked the Rumble Club link at the bottom of that discussion then you've read all the significant posts I know of here on that subject. I would be happy to learn more and include it on the wiki.
.
You didn't find that here in the Rumble Club, did you? I don't recall that but, I may have missed it.
.
An external HPF/LPF would have the advantage of external user controls that can be adjusted according to the user's judgement as to their effect on the sound in different venues and/or conditions, even moods. Like many things in music, the value of the HPF/LPF is in the ear of the beholder. Many feel strongly both ways. It is not for me to say that any are wrong. It is for each of us to follow our muse and make our own choices.

Sorry I cannot be more help.
.

I have read all of that, sir. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

No, sir. I did not find that additional information in the Rumble Club or the Wiki. I found it here:

Link Removed

I am sure that it is good information, but I do not possess the knowledge of electronic engineering to best understand it.

I was just wondering if there was anymore information that had come out given all of the recent discussions on this topic. Hopefully at a level that is more easily grasped by players.

 

[G-Dog]

I have read all of that, sir. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

No, sir. I did not find that additional information in the Rumble Club or the Wiki. I found it here:

Link Removed

I am sure that it is good information, but I do not possess the knowledge of electronic engineering to best understand it.

I was just wondering if there was anymore information that had come out given all of the recent discussions on this topic. Hopefully at a level that is more easily grasped by players.

Have you looked through the HPF/LPF Mega Thread?
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[Tad]

Have you looked through the HPF/LPF Mega Thread?
.

Yes, sir.

It was quite informative, but it did not have any specific information on the Rumbles’ 2nd Order HPF that I could find. That does not mean that I did not miss it.

Thanks again.

 

[Element Zero]

Well I’m not part of this club but I definitely felt the rumble earthquake a few minutes ago here in central California!

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Hey guys,

I purchased the Fender Rumble 200 a few days ago and just tried it out with my band (loud punk, think Social Distortion meets Rancid)... and man... I could barely hear that thing. It was embarrassing. It is a great sounding amp but it seems I could only use it for low volume or PA supported situations.

I tried a HPF, getting it off the ground, etc to no avail. It just doesn’t have that oomph I’m used to (I’ve been using a borrowed GK Backline 600 up to this point with cheap-ish Ampeg cabs).

What would get me to a place where I actually have some headroom instead of having to crank that thing all the way? An extension cab? A 500 combo? Should I just go a different route altogether?

Thanks in advance.

R500 (or 800) head, R410 cab and R115 cab.
Then just grin while you’re thumpin’ away!

Hey guys,

I purchased the Fender Rumble 200 a few days ago and just tried it out with my band (loud punk, think Social Distortion meets Rancid)... and man... I could barely hear that thing. It was embarrassing. It is a great sounding amp but it seems I could only use it for low volume or PA supported situations.

I tried a HPF, getting it off the ground, etc to no avail. It just doesn’t have that oomph I’m used to (I’ve been using a borrowed GK Backline 600 up to this point with cheap-ish Ampeg cabs).

What would get me to a place where I actually have some headroom instead of having to crank that thing all the way? An extension cab? A 500 combo? Should I just go a different route altogether?

Thanks in advance.

R800 head, R410 and R115 cab. I have a R500 head with a R410 and R115 cab and “I pity the fool” who wants to step

on my toes. Of course, I rarely would have to use both cabs... but if I do, I’m pretty confident that I wouldn’t have any trouble being heard. Here comes the BOOM!

 

[Stumbo]

Hey guys,

I purchased the Fender Rumble 200 a few days ago and just tried it out with my band (loud punk, think Social Distortion meets Rancid)... and man... I could barely hear that thing. It was embarrassing. It is a great sounding amp but it seems I could only use it for low volume or PA supported situations.

I tried a HPF, getting it off the ground, etc to no avail. It just doesn’t have that oomph I’m used to (I’ve been using a borrowed GK Backline 600 up to this point with cheap-ish Ampeg cabs).

What would get me to a place where I actually have some headroom instead of having to crank that thing all the way? An extension cab? A 500 combo? Should I just go a different route altogether?

Thanks in advance.

Add a 2x10 extension for a 4x10 verticle stack.

 

[Stumbo]

My 2 cents... at the minimum you are gonna need the Rumble 15 Ext cab.
If I were doing that kind of punk I would personally shoot for the Rumble 500 or 800 head, and then either a good 410 cab, or a 2x15.
I have the Rumble 500 combo and the 210 ext cab and its a nice lightweight compromise.

OR, R800 with two 4x10s. Dial in whatever you need.

 

[Bboopbennie]

If you can't get everyone to turn down, might be time for a 4x10 cab. Smaller amp will move only so much air . Most buy amps multiple times until they get it right. Save time and money " buy once buy right".

 

[GonePlaid]

If you can't get everyone to turn down, might be time for a 4x10 cab. Smaller amp will move only so much air . Most buy amps multiple times until they get it right. Save time and money " buy once buy right".

If you're playing at eardrum bursting volumes, 140W(without extension speaker)prolly won't cut it. Either add a cab of whatever configuration you like(1x15, 2x10, 4x10)or take the 200c back and get something bigger.
For what I do, the 200c-with 1x12 cab[sometimes]is more than enough. Vintage button 'in' will add some oomph but prolly not enough for your purpose. BTW, ya might want to get used to saying "huh?"

 

[Jughead6]

If you're playing at eardrum bursting volumes, 140W(without extension speaker)prolly won't cut it. Either add a cab of whatever configuration you like(1x15, 2x10, 4x10)or take the 200c back and get something bigger.
For what I do, the 200c-with 1x12 cab[sometimes]is more than enough. Vintage button 'in' will add some oomph but prolly not enough for your purpose. BTW, ya might want to get used to saying "huh?"

Time to drop a requote.

Employment law here in Ontario prescribes a maximum time-weighted exposure limit of 85 decibels [SPL] over an eight-hour work shift, with every 3 dB increment over that reducing the exposure time by one-half (i.e., 4 hours for 88 dB, 2 hours for 91 dB, 1 hour for 94 dB, etc.).

"It is important to note however, according to the Canadian Hearing Society and many others, “in no way should 85dBA be understood to be a safe level for unprotected exposure.” In fact, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) estimates prolonged exposure to noise at 100dB will result in 56 out of 100 workers suffering hearing loss. At 90dB, 29 workers of 100 will suffer hearing loss. At 85dB, 15 of 100 workers will suffer. Even at 80dB, three of 100 may sustain hearing loss. Thus efforts to reduce noise levels to less harmful levels using a hierarchy of controls are essential." (source: WHSC - New Ontario noise regulation to extend coverage for all workers)

Workers in restaurants and bars are covered under these regulations. I mixed a show last Saturday night in a small bar in Yorkville and told the band that I would not amplify the drums through the sound reinforcement system, but that the drums would establish an acoustical reference level. The other instruments and vocals would be balanced against that level. The staff were ecstatic, but even so, the band managed to break 105 dB (SPL, C-weighted) on several occasions. Note that for a continuous noise level of 105 dB, the maximum allowable exposure would be on the order of 4 minutes. I noticed that members of several other bands on the bill were wearing earplugs while the headliners were playing, as was I. The realization of the selfish desire of three or four individuals to create this level of sound constitutes nothing less than an assault on patrons and staff members who, it should be noted, were not asked for their consent ahead of time; their mere presence in the venue cannot be deemed to be consent.

 

[CallMeAl]

I have read all of that, sir. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

No, sir. I did not find that additional information in the Rumble Club or the Wiki. I found it here:

Link Removed

I am sure that it is good information, but I do not possess the knowledge of electronic engineering to best understand it.

I was just wondering if there was anymore information that had come out given all of the recent discussions on this topic. Hopefully at a level that is more easily grasped by players.

The way I understand it, "2nd order" just refers to how steep the roll off is, but does not specify the frequency where it is set. I just wrote to Fender, I'll check back in if/when I get an answer from them. I've been curious about this too.

 

[CallMeAl]

An external HPF/LPF would have the advantage of external user controls that can be adjusted according to the user's judgement as to their effect on the sound in different venues and/or conditions, even moods.

In my limited research, this seems to be an accurate assessment; I'll add that different basses (5 string, alternate tunings, double bass) may also have different requirements.

Some interesting opinions here from JimmyM, on when to use a hpf or not:
Have we neutered the bottom end with the HPF craze?

 

[CallMeAl]

It is my all time favorite bass. I had one in about 20000, but had to sell it because of financial woes about 2003. This one has the tone pot which adds a lot to the tonal palette.
View attachment 3466647

Love seeing tone knobs on those bad boys!

 

[Stumbo]

In my limited research, this seems to be an accurate assessment; I'll add that different basses (5 string, alternate tunings, double bass) may also have different requirements.

Some interesting opinions here from JimmyM, on when to use a hpf or not:
Have we neutered the bottom end with the HPF craze?

22 reasons to use an HPF: TB Wiki on High Pass and Low Pass Filters

 

[G-Dog]

... ... , sir. ...
No, sir. ... ... .

Yes, sir. ... ... .

Thanks, Tad. I appreciate the respect but, I am not that deserving, and I'm not anywhere on the path to knighthood. We're just all casual like, here in The Club. No need for such formality. Sorry if I sounded more formal than intended.

I would say it makes me feel old, which I am. But nothing does that more thoroughly than a hot, humid outdoor gig like I had this 4th of July, and now, the day after an exhilarating swim (and ill-advised diving). Body all aching and wracked with pain!

Unless you meant it sarcastically, in which case, I'm good with that!

Rumble On!​

 

[Stumbo]

Thanks, Tad. I appreciate the respect but, I am not that deserving, and I'm not anywhere on the path to knighthood. We're just all casual like, here in The Club. No need for such formality. Sorry if I sounded more formal than intended.

I would say it makes me feel old, which I am. But nothing does that more thoroughly than a hot, humid outdoor gig like I had this 4th of July, and now, the day after an exhilarating swim (and ill-advised diving). Body all aching and wracked with pain!

Unless you meant it sarcastically, in which case, I'm good with that!

Rumble On!​

Carry on, Sir. Hope you feel better! Maybe some cold packs on those sore muscle alternating hot packs might help.
Good excuse for a massage.

 

[G-Dog]

Carry on, Sir. Hope you feel better! Maybe some cold packs on those sore muscle alternating hot packs might help.
Good excuse for a massage.

Now, come on, Stumbo! Not with the "sir" again!! Do they make those hot & cold packs in full-body, extra tall, sizes??? Actually it's a bittersweet, healing (I hope) kinda achiness, remembering the good times that caused it.

Massage!?!?! Hey, Mrs. Dog ... . .
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[Stumbo]

Do they make those hot & cold packs in full-body, extra tall, sizes???

I have the 11x21. It works! Colpac Freezable Reusable Gel Packs Life saver after my knee surgery.