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Fender Rumble Club

#6,821
DerekW said:
Ok... Gain vs volume...

Linnin you are very pro-volume first, then gain... But, isn't it dependant on the end sound you are looking for?

What I mean is, if you are looking for a very clean sound, then volume first makes sense, but if you are looking for more grit (for lack of a better word) then wouldn't it make sense to drive the gain harder?
Or is this more related to tube amps?
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It is. Pushing a tube Fender Bassman power section with a hotly overdriven pre-amp is classic Marshall tonality. But not with D-Class ICE Power. They are clean clean clean and VERY transparent. Don't try to push the power amp with high gain settings. That is counter productive. If the onboard overdrive doesn't do it for you you'll need to resort to outboard gear. Good bass distortion boxes can be quite spendy. So to get your desired level of dirt; grit, and grind use effects.
I auditioned a Rumble 100 with Gain and Master at high noon. Overdrive engaged also at high noon and it was very 60's LSD fuzztone and I played around with it some and it was fun. So yes, pushing your gain up will increase your effects effectiveness. You're just not doing yourself or your Rumble any favors with high gain settings. Keep your overall gain structure in mind and your tone and sound quality will benefit.
 
#6,822
Linnin said:
It is. Pushing a tube Fender Bassman power section with a hotly overdriven pre-amp is classic Marshall tonality. But not with D-Class ICE Power. They are clean clean clean and VERY transparent. Don't try to push the power amp with high gain settings. That is counter productive. If the onboard overdrive doesn't do it for you you'll need to resort to outboard gear. Good bass distortion boxes can be quite spendy. So to get your desired level of dirt; grit, and grind use effects.
I auditioned a Rumble 100 with Gain and Master at high noon. Overdrive engaged also at high noon and it was very 60's LSD fuzztone and I played around with it some and it was fun. So yes, pushing your gain up will increase your effects effectiveness. You're just not doing yourself or your Rumble any favors with high gain settings. Keep your overall gain structure in mind and your tone and sound quality will benefit.
Click to expand...

In the Rumble Owners manual it says. "The GAIN control will also affect the level of distortion/compression if VINTAGE and/or OVERDRIVE are selected." so it seems like the Gain knob IS designed to be used to control the amount of grit and the Rumble is able to handle high Gain settings. So I say push the power amp all you want and if it sounds good to you then no problems!
 
#6,823
I am a fan of clean bass tone so I rarely use the overdrive. But, oddly enough, I run the overdrive full out on! With my setup, it is just a very enjoyable mild overdrive tone. I would have never dreamed of putting an overdrive on bass until joining TB. I run the overdrive channel volume to match the volume of the regular channel.
 
#6,824
Member 207 checking in here after using my 500 combo for a year and still loving it. I'm adding a second cab and weighed in on a lot of input from folks in this forum. Unfortunately neither Sam Ash nor GC near me have any of the cabs in stock so I'm stuck buying, trying then returning. I really liked the 112 cab that I recently paired with the 500 combo. It rounded the bottom nicely, stacked great although I felt a little lacking in the power department. I've since ordered the 210 cab based on what folks have said about coupling and power with the 210 combo and that it adds good bottom. It all makes sense and looking forward to trying that out and making a decision. Wish I could keep both, but one has to go back. The 15 was attractive, but I've narrowed it down to the 112 and the 210 cabs although I wish I could have tried the 115 as well.
 
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#6,826
115 has the best moved air:dollar ratio of the 3. But you can't go wrong with the 210

mikecd1 said:
Member 207 checking in here after using my 500 combo for a year and still loving it. I'm adding a second cab and weighed in on a lot of input from folks in this forum. Unfortunately neither Sam Ash nor GC near me have any of the cabs in stock so I'm stuck buying, trying then returning. I really liked the 112 cab that I recently paired with the 500 combo. It rounded the bottom nicely, stacked great although I felt a little lacking in the power department. I've since ordered the 210 cab based on what folks have said about coupling and power with the 210 combo and that it adds good bottom. It all makes sense and looking forward to trying that out and making a decision. Wish I could keep both, but one has to go back. The 15 was attractive, but I've narrowed it down to the 112 and the 210 cabs although I wish I could have tried the 115 as well.
Click to expand...
 
#6,827
GregT said:
I am a fan of clean bass tone so I rarely use the overdrive. But, oddly enough, I run the overdrive full out on! With my setup, it is just a very enjoyable mild overdrive tone. I would have never dreamed of putting an overdrive on bass until joining TB. I run the overdrive channel volume to match the volume of the regular channel.
Click to expand...

This is what I usually do with my 500H and 40. I use OD all the time, not to get distortion but to make sound warmer, rounder and more compressed. I'm not using OD full on but it's on all the time. It takes some tweaking to find the right amount but when you do, the sound is among the best you could ever wish. With OD, 115 and P-bass tone knob opened just a little the sound is both warm and rich of overtones at the same time. And when you dig deep, the 115 bites! I usually start with gain at 9-11 (o'clock) and add some more, if my ears get tired when the session lasts. Rumble OD has just right amount of compression for my style of playing. Love it everyday and I feel I have no needs to update my gear, ever.
 
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#6,828
Again the call goes out.
Linnin said:
Who wants to write a Rumble Talk on proper use of the GAIN control; proper gain structure to include unity gain, and how gain effects and interacts with both the overdrive and all the various voicings?
Click to expand...

I have to disqualify myself because I do not own a V3 Rumble with that pre-amp, and I am not a technician. While I have a seat-of-the-pants working knowledge of gain structure, I am certainly no expert on the matter.
 
#6,829
deluxeg said:
In the Rumble Owners manual it says. "The GAIN control will also affect the level of distortion/compression if VINTAGE and/or OVERDRIVE are selected." so it seems like the Gain knob IS designed to be used to control the amount of grit and the Rumble is able to handle high Gain settings. So I say push the power amp all you want and if it sounds good to you then no problems!
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Yes and No. Yes, the owners manual does state that, and yes the gain is designed and does indeed increase the effect of both the Overdrive and Vintage voicings. I have said that many times myself in trying to explain what gain is and isn't.
No. Pushing any solid state power amp beyond it's capacity is always a bad idea. Fender's Delta-Comp Limiter intervenes and you end up with a heavily compressed signal that has had the brakes slammed on by the limiter. This keeps you from blowing your power amp and/or speakers. This is why understanding gain structure is so critical to good sound quality and longevity of your equipment.
 
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#6,834
VeganThump said:
So am I understanding this correctly,set the volume at say, 3 o'clock and use the gain for overall volume? I don't plan on using the onboard OD because I have my B7k for OD.
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Obviously that's going to loud as hell, but the idea is to use all wattage for headroom and highest sound quality possible not just volume. So set your master for your basic volume requirement and then use the gain to fine tune not only volume but also for effect. That can be kind of tricky and trial and error is the rule.

In your case the Darkglass B7k is also an excellent pre-amp, so you might want to by pass the Rumble pre-amp and go straight into the effects return. If you are running bass-> B7k-> Rumble, then be mindful of unity gain.
 
#6,837
For gain structure as concerned with instrument amplification there is really no one size fits all method.

But if you want the most od on a rumble, you need to crank the gain as it acts as the first gain stage for the od as well. This way you don't have to add as much overdrive itself and can get a more natural od, or over the top crunch and grind if you crank it.

If you want to toggle back and forth with a foot switch then you have to compromise. Unfortunately the rumble does not have a preamp clip light, or any clip light for that matter.

It is true in all cases that if you crank the master and try to use gain as volume you will not be amplifying a signal at its optimum signal to noise ratio. Results will vary depending on the quality of components in the preamp, power amp, bass and any pedals anywhere in the chain. General rule of thumb for bass is to run the preamp just before clipping for an aggressive yet clean tone, but I push mine into clipping if the amp can handle it. In the swr bass350 I had to change the tube, acoustic b600h has a nice overdriveable preamp. I have not had enough time on the rumble (cant play it at home and currently not in a band) to say for sure, but I noticed with a passive fenders it seemed to need the od in order to get a useable overdrive. But I am sure with cranked high mids I could coax some out without it. I set my bass 350 to 800hz and crank that in order to get my drive tone in full effect. Same may or may not work with rumble. But the overdrive is pleasing to me so I don't worry about it.

Now guitar amps are another story, especially low watt tube amps. There for clean you crank the master and dial up the volume with the gain, but again that is not optimal with every amp, and not needed with multi channel amps with decent clean channels. One size fits all does not always apply, and when people who are taught how to dial in one type of amp apply that to every type of amp, without understanding what is behind it, frustration and bad tone can be the end result.

As an audio engineer, gain structure also tends to be different in the studio than live (for mics)
 

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