Fender Rumble Club

[lowplaces]

There are several nitrocellulose lacquers available, each with distinctive characteristics. Some are softer and "breathe" as the wood swells and contracts with the changes in atmosphere so it is less likely to check. Others are hard and brittle(-ish). Behlen Nitrocellulose Stringed Instrument Lacquer is of the flexible variety but it still dries pretty hard and can be polished to infinity. They also make a "regular" lacquer which is harder. A very popular but almost twice as expensive brand is McFadden (now marketed by Seagrave.)

One of the cool things about cellulose is that it is made out of the same stuff as your bass, pretty much. Tree sap. As such, natural lacquers have an affinity for wood and soak up into the pores completely and bond in a way the water-borne and catalyzed plastics can't quite do. But... reality check!

One word: "Fullerplast."

Since what? Day 1? Fenders have had the raw wood dipped or sprayed with a catalyzed plastic. Whatever imagined or real tone-enhancing which is attributed to natural lacquers is completely cancelled by isolating it from the wood with Fullerplast. Whatever is applied over the Fullerplast is pretty much cosmetic only (and protection--catalyzed automotive urethanes are TOUGH!) Why do prized violins sound so special? The wood is dried-out and brittle. Why do some electric basses sound so special? Playing technique, set-up, and electronics--pretty much in that order. The underlying wood (or whatever) of the body and neck contribute some but not nearly as much as we musicians tend to believe.

I was checking out the pedal rack of one of my favorite bassists (a local guy, Ronnie Sanchez.) He has a Ibanez AW7 Auto Wah/Envelope filter and a Boss OC3 Super Octave but he says he really doesn't use them much. Then he demonstrated half a dozen very different tones by changing his attack, where he was hitting the strings, and some damping. Minimal knob-twisting.

Now there is no denying that some guitars and basses have some special mojo that sets them apart in tone and playability and this is real. But people who have studied this in far more detail than myself generally conclude that original build quality (neck-to-body joint is a biggie) and set-up count for more than all of the lore about woods, finishes, etc. For example, I picked up an Invalid Link Removed off Craig's List and was upset at the dull, lifeless sound. I played around with the tone knobs, then I started looking at pick-up height and other set-up things. Then I noticed slight movement at the neck/body joint. The screws were barely hand-tight. When I tightened that up, the bass's tone sprang to life.

There you have it folks--my treatise (rant) on guitar finishes. Enjoy whatever you like but understand that what you're really hearing is well-dried wood encapsulated in Fullerplast.

P.S. does it show that I'm a techie?

Good post ! Thanks !

Boy oh boy, start a thread titled Fullerplast over on tdpri forum and visualize knocking a hornet's nest out of a tree on a hot summer day

Talk about who Let The Dogs Out !

Anyhow, does my Bass have the Fullerplast on it ? It looks very similar to the Gibson 2007 Melody Maker I had. That no wood filler under the Nitro look.

 

[Linnin]

does my Bass have the Fullerplast on it ?

No, I doubt it. You can still see the pores in the wood grain almost like a gunwax finish. Which is something I adore.

 

[Linnin]

For those that don't think tone woods matter; just play a white neck vs a rosewood fretboard. If you can't hear and feel the difference, just buy and play the cheapest instruments available. No need to waste your money.

 

[lowplaces]

No, I doubt it. You can still see the pores in the wood grain almost like a gunwax finish. Which is something I adore.

Cool

Next time I'm in Guitar Emporium here in Louisville I'll ask to see a pre CBS Strat or whatever they have in stock. In the past I've never bothered to pick one up and take a close look because I can't afford one and even if I could I wouldn't pay the price for them.

But at least I'll be able to see the difference.

 

[Linnin]

But at least I'll be able to see the difference.

Cool

Next time I'm in Guitar Emporium here in Louisville I'll ask to see a pre CBS Strat or whatever they have in stock. In the past I've never bothered to pick one up and take a close look because I can't afford one and even if I could I wouldn't pay the price for them.

But at least I'll be able to see the difference.

I've never been able to really see through a pre F.M.I.C. finish. Even the so call 'natural' finishes of the mid 1970's had the pores in the wood grain well sealed. The few pre-CBS Fenders that I have seen had fairly thick color coats, and the wood grain simply isn't visible at all. Nothing like the beautifully translucent finish on my 2012 American Standard Jazz Bass.

 

[Indiedog]

For those that don't think tone woods matter; just play a white neck vs a rosewood fretboard. If you can't hear and feel the difference, just buy and play the cheapest instruments available. No need to waste your money.

It seems to clear to me that woods, construction, finishes, hardware, pick-ups, etc. all make a difference. But I think the most important controller of tone is technique.

 

[Linnin]

 

[Scott Truesdell]

It seems to clear to me that woods, construction, finishes, hardware, pick-ups, etc. all make a difference. But I think the most important controller of tone is technique.

I agree. It all matters ... to a degree.
Who among us hasn't watched in awe as a maestro picks up an absolutely beat instrument (Kay?) and made it sing?

I knew my treatise (rant!) would stir things up a bit!

 

[Indiedog]

I agree. It all matters ... to a degree.
Who among us hasn't watched in awe as a maestro picks up an absolutely beat instrument (Kay?) and made it sing?

This exact scenario is what has swayed me the most.

 

[FirewalZ]

Good post ! Thanks !

Boy oh boy, start a thread titled Fullerplast over on tdpri forum and visualize knocking a hornet's nest out of a tree on a hot summer day

Talk about who Let The Dogs Out !

Anyhow, does my Bass have the Fullerplast on it ? It looks very similar to the Gibson 2007 Melody Maker I had. That no wood filler under the Nitro look.

View attachment 1144925

View attachment 1144925

I bought mine new and it stated it was a hand applied Nitro satin honey burst finish....if you press down and run your fingernail across it you get wood, so I don't believe there is any sort f undercoat.

 

[Scott Truesdell]

I bought mine new and it stated it was a hand applied Nitro satin honey burst finish....if you press down and run your fingernail across it you get wood, so I don't believe there is any sort f undercoat.

Custom finishes are a whole 'nother thing.

In the high-end furniture world, the best stuff has all its grain sealed and filled by simply more layers of the final lacquer. No special grain filler, no vinyl sealer, no catalyzed sealer, just lots of coats of lacquer, polished down almost to the wood then reapplied. Repeat, basically, forever. These finishes look like you are gazing into a 3-D infinity.

 

[Indiedog]

Custom finishes are a whole 'nother thing.

In the high-end furniture world, the best stuff has all its grain sealed and filled by simply more layers of the final lacquer. No special grain filler, no vinyl sealer, no catalyzed sealer, just lots of coats of lacquer, polished down almost to the wood then reapplied. Repeat, basically, forever. These finishes look like you are gazing into a 3-D infinity.

That is such an evolved art. I so admire these kinds of finishes and the skill necessary to acquire them.

 

[Linnin]

These finishes look like you are gazing into a 3-D infinity.

California Custom Show Cars & Hot Rods. The very post WWII culture Leo Fender's little company thrived on.

 

[Indiedog]

California Custom Show Cars & Hot Rods. The very post WWII culture Leo Fender's little company thrived on.

Yeppers. I think a clever person could write a cool essay on custom finishes of all kinds...cars, furniture, instruments, and other objects and then draw attention to the common, focused thinking that is necessary to achieve them. There must be some fascinating abstract commonalities between the groups, the objects, and the philosophies inherent in that finesse-mindset.

 

[Linnin]

(Kay?)

Kay made really good double bass violins. Willie Dixon played one all his professional life.
Fretwell Bass in beautiful downtown Staunton, Virginia has a large inventory of Kay Double Basses. Many pre-WWII. upright bass, bass strings, upright bass strings, double bass for sale, used bass for sale, stand up bass, Innovation Bass Strings, best bass strings | www.engelhardt.com,www.kaybass.com,www.fretwellbass.com

 

[Linnin]

Yeppers. I think a clever person could write a cool essay on custom finishes of all kinds...cars, furniture, instruments, and other objects and then draw attention to the common, focused thinking that is necessary to achieve them. There must be some fascinating abstract commonalities between the groups, the objects, and the philosophies inherent in that finesse-mindset.

You just might be on to something there. The game is afoot! Start researching & writing.

 

[Indiedog]

You just might be on to something there. The game is afoot! Start researching & writing.

I do stuff like that. My last big piece was on bread and butter.

 

[Linnin]

I do stuff like that. My last big piece was on bread and butter.

I can believe that just like whiskey is a whole grain smoothie. Wait just a dog gone minute! I almost forgot it is Whiskey Wednesday!

 

[Big Hoss]

If today is Whiskey Wednesday, does that make tomorrow Tequila Thursday?

 

[Indiedog]

I can believe that just like whiskey is a whole grain smoothie. Wait just a dog gone minute! I almost forgot it is Whiskey Wednesday!

Good catch! The Monday holiday threw me.
I will pour a wee dram of this very bottle this evening. Thanks, Linnin! I sure wish I could pour one for you too!