Fender sound needs a kick up the butt!

[Thunderthumbs73]

Here’s my story…

This is my 2004 American Deluxe 5 String Jazz Bass. I bought it new, so have owned it 21 years. It’s a great playing bass but has a pretty awful and weak sound in as much as it doesn’t cut through a mix. Unfortunately I fell out of love with it pretty soon after purchase so have, on a few occasions, decided to part with it. Consequently it’s spent virtually all its life in its case, doing absolutely sweet nothing: I doubt it’s been out more than 20 times in 21 years! However…

… in that time the noiseless pickups (by Bill Lawrence?) and / or the active preamp have come in for criticism, and bassists’ press have had articles where players replaced the pickups.

So, coming forward to last week.

I decided to give it one last try / chance. If I could find suitable pickups I might decide to keep it. But which pickups? Here in UK we don’t have the selection available over the pond - esp. for Jazz 5, - so the following makes are almost all I can buy: Sey. Duncan, Dimazio, Aguilar, Norstrand, EMG. There might be a couple of ‘hand winders’, too. In addition I propose to convert the bass to full passive.

My preferred sound is some growl and drive; the sort of thing a hum bucket might deliver. A “vintage” Jazz Bass, single coil sound is definitely not for me. Admittedly I’m a flatwound sort-a bloke (D’Addario Chromes shown on the pic, but Fender rounds were on originally) but may switch to rounds for this bass.

Guys, wisdom, experience, suggestions ALL very welcome.

Tks for reading…

John.

England.

Y'know, before going down the pickup rabbit hole (which I've certainly done enough times w Jazzes) you could try an outboard pre to give that bass a kick in the pants. See if you can try an Xotic RC Booster. I swear by mine or making any passive bass more...more. It is very "transparent" in that it doesn't so much change the voice of your bass or make a passive bass sound active, but can seriously add weight, clarity and ooomph if you push the gain knob up. A real secret weapon IMO.

This is an approach I took to a MIM Player Deluxe Active Jazz Bass V. It wasn't that the tone wasn't good or didn't cut. It was simply a volume problem that despite two 9 volt batteries, it was less output than the two passive Jazz Basses I had. So instead of trying to figure out which pickups would physically fit that had more output, or trying to figure out if a different preamp might add more output, I simply bought an el-cheapo boost pedal that very easily put the Basses output on parity not only with the passive Jazz Basses, but also if I needed, could match the output of my Stingrays.

So a $35.00 mini-boost pedal I've gigged with for years with ZERO issues.

Normally, I'm not as much in favor of a pedal "bandaid" approach, but honestly the bass sounded FINE. I just needed it LOUDER and with more output, and any other approach was potentially changing any of the TONE which I never had any problem with.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

Audere 4 Band Jazz preamp, a good set of strings and proper setup.

Trust me, I did that to a Chinese Fender Modern Player Jazz V and it's night and day.

 

[Clark W]

Here’s my story…

This is my 2004 American Deluxe 5 String Jazz Bass. I bought it new, so have owned it 21 years. It’s a great playing bass but has a pretty awful and weak sound in as much as it doesn’t cut through a mix. Unfortunately I fell out of love with it pretty soon after purchase so have, on a few occasions, decided to part with it. Consequently it’s spent virtually all its life in its case, doing absolutely sweet nothing: I doubt it’s been out more than 20 times in 21 years! However…

… in that time the noiseless pickups (by Bill Lawrence?) and / or the active preamp have come in for criticism, and bassists’ press have had articles where players replaced the pickups.

So, coming forward to last week.

I decided to give it one last try / chance. If I could find suitable pickups I might decide to keep it. But which pickups? Here in UK we don’t have the selection available over the pond - esp. for Jazz 5, - so the following makes are almost all I can buy: Sey. Duncan, Dimazio, Aguilar, Norstrand, EMG. There might be a couple of ‘hand winders’, too. In addition I propose to convert the bass to full passive.

My preferred sound is some growl and drive; the sort of thing a hum bucket might deliver. A “vintage” Jazz Bass, single coil sound is definitely not for me. Admittedly I’m a flatwound sort-a bloke (D’Addario Chromes shown on the pic, but Fender rounds were on originally) but may switch to rounds for this bass.

Guys, wisdom, experience, suggestions ALL very welcome.

Tks for reading…

John.

England.

So you're in the UK, what about Delano out of Germany?

 

[sunbeast]

Based on personal experience, I second @ragetoca relative to pickups.
Delanos Delano JMVC5 FE/M2-AS 5 String Hum Cancelling Jazz Bass® Pickup Set for Fender® American Standard® | Reverb
plus a Sadowsky or Audere preamp.

I've used the 4-string version of these pickups in a few basses and I think they are a great recommendation for what the OP is looking for- very ballsy/growly, and not a hint of noise (not sure if the 5-string set is as noise-free given 5-string split-coils often have imbalanced humcancelling, but they may have used some sort of clever scheme to work that out)

 

[Rockin John]

So you're in the UK, what about Delano out of Germany?

Yes, I missed Delano. Have only seen them at one dealer. Tks for the tip.

 

[Doug Parent]

Been down that same road many times with the Fender American Deluxe V / Elite V. Matter of fact had the same bass as yours. Every time I went with Nordstrand NJ5F single coils that bass came alive. With or without the stock pre. With a Nordstrand 3 band preamp it was a winner. Good luck with your project.

 

[BobKos]

@SharpCat beat me to it, but I think adding a John East J-Retro (I prefer the J-Retro Deluxe) to a set of good pickups will do wonders for your bass. I am a Nordstrand fanboy, so I say go all out and route the body for a set of P2 sized Big Splits. BUT - I have to say I have NEVER played a Fender 5 string I liked. IMO you may be better off selling your Jazz, cut your loss, and buy a bass that you will love. TBH I think you will be thrilled with a Stingray 5 HH if you could live with the narrow spacing.

 

[Gervais Cote]

Nordstrand, all the way.

Good choice obviously. Would you say the Blade design of Nordstrand would bring more "aggressiveness" than the standard round poles from the same manufacturer ?

 

[Luther]

Here’s my story…

This is my 2004 American Deluxe 5 String Jazz Bass. I bought it new, so have owned it 21 years. It’s a great playing bass but has a pretty awful and weak sound in as much as it doesn’t cut through a mix. Unfortunately I fell out of love with it pretty soon after purchase so have, on a few occasions, decided to part with it. Consequently it’s spent virtually all its life in its case, doing absolutely sweet nothing: I doubt it’s been out more than 20 times in 21 years! However…

… in that time the noiseless pickups (by Bill Lawrence?) and / or the active preamp have come in for criticism, and bassists’ press have had articles where players replaced the pickups.

So, coming forward to last week.

I decided to give it one last try / chance. If I could find suitable pickups I might decide to keep it. But which pickups? Here in UK we don’t have the selection available over the pond - esp. for Jazz 5, - so the following makes are almost all I can buy: Sey. Duncan, Dimazio, Aguilar, Norstrand, EMG. There might be a couple of ‘hand winders’, too. In addition I propose to convert the bass to full passive.

My preferred sound is some growl and drive; the sort of thing a hum bucket might deliver. A “vintage” Jazz Bass, single coil sound is definitely not for me. Admittedly I’m a flatwound sort-a bloke (D’Addario Chromes shown on the pic, but Fender rounds were on originally) but may switch to rounds for this bass.

Guys, wisdom, experience, suggestions ALL very welcome.

Tks for reading…

John.

England.

+1 on the Dimarzio Ultra Jazz Pickups.

 

[Yahboy]

Here’s my story…

This is my 2004 American Deluxe 5 String Jazz Bass. I bought it new, so have owned it 21 years. It’s a great playing bass but has a pretty awful and weak sound in as much as it doesn’t cut through a mix. Unfortunately I fell out of love with it pretty soon after purchase so have, on a few occasions, decided to part with it. Consequently it’s spent virtually all its life in its case, doing absolutely sweet nothing: I doubt it’s been out more than 20 times in 21 years! However…

… in that time the noiseless pickups (by Bill Lawrence?) and / or the active preamp have come in for criticism, and bassists’ press have had articles where players replaced the pickups.

So, coming forward to last week.

I decided to give it one last try / chance. If I could find suitable pickups I might decide to keep it. But which pickups? Here in UK we don’t have the selection available over the pond - esp. for Jazz 5, - so the following makes are almost all I can buy: Sey. Duncan, Dimazio, Aguilar, Norstrand, EMG. There might be a couple of ‘hand winders’, too. In addition I propose to convert the bass to full passive.

My preferred sound is some growl and drive; the sort of thing a hum bucket might deliver. A “vintage” Jazz Bass, single coil sound is definitely not for me. Admittedly I’m a flatwound sort-a bloke (D’Addario Chromes shown on the pic, but Fender rounds were on originally) but may switch to rounds for this bass.

Guys, wisdom, experience, suggestions ALL very welcome.

Tks for reading…

John.

England.

Deluxe, Elite and Ultra J always sound smooth to my ear. My previous Cort GB74JJ with stock VTB-ST pickups and preamp sound more growl with any round wound bass string.

 

[SunByrne]

+1 on the Delano. As a thank you gift for my teacher I bought him a Sandberg 5-string jazz bass with Delanos on it. Sounds amazing.

I will say that I also have positive experience with DiMarzio. I bought a cheap Yamaha jazz bass used and it’s well-made but the stock electronics were pretty awful. Replaced the pickups with Model Js and now the bass sounds great, and they were dead cheap (got them on sale at Sweetwater). So these might also be worth a try.

 

[pbass2]

This is an approach I took to a MIM Player Deluxe Active Jazz Bass V. It wasn't that the tone wasn't good or didn't cut. It was simply a volume problem that despite two 9 volt batteries, it was less output than the two passive Jazz Basses I had. So instead of trying to figure out which pickups would physically fit that had more output, or trying to figure out if a different preamp might add more output, I simply bought an el-cheapo boost pedal that very easily put the Basses output on parity not only with the passive Jazz Basses, but also if I needed, could match the output of my Stingrays.

So a $35.00 mini-boost pedal I've gigged with for years with ZERO issues.

Normally, I'm not as much in favor of a pedal "bandaid" approach, but honestly the bass sounded FINE. I just needed it LOUDER and with more output, and any other approach was potentially changing any of the TONE which I never had any problem with.

Makes sense. The thing though about the Xotic RC in particular is, not only is it a boost, it has a great EQ, and the Gain setting can make even the wimpiest pawn shop cheapo sound like it has serious cojones! And somehow it does it without making a passive bass sound "active".

 

[Malak the Mad]

Delano JC 5 HE/M2 2024

Delanos Delano JMVC5 FE/M2-AS 5 String Hum Cancelling Jazz Bass® Pickup Set for Fender® American Standard® | Reverb

I have the JMVCs with a JEast setup on a Jazz 4. This is a killer sound.

So you're in the UK, what about Delano out of Germany?

I've used the 4-string version of these pickups in a few basses and I think they are a great recommendation for what the OP is looking for- very ballsy/growly, and not a hint of noise

+1 on the Delano. As a thank you gift for my teacher I bought him a Sandberg 5-string jazz bass with Delanos on it. Sounds amazing.

I wasn't going to make a specific recommendation before hearing back from the OP, nor do I like the look of "jumping on the bandwagon", but everyone here does make a great point; the Delano JMVC's are modern sounding, very bold and not for the faint of heart.

Interestingly, and I'm only speaking for myself, running them passively is just fine. No slam on those who prefer active systems, but for those particular pickups, pumping them through a couple of different preamps...a John East and an Audere JZ3...just felt like I was gilding the lily. So, I decided to go passive and paired them with some of the brightest strings I have in my collection as an experiment...a set of D'Addario FlexSteels. Suffice it to say, they're still incredibly thumpy and mean sounding!

So, while I found my particular "alchemy", a bit of magic that will vary from person to person, the root of it all was the Delano pups with those big, honkin' pole pieces!

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Makes sense. The thing though about the Xotic RC in particular is, not only is it a boost, it has a great EQ, and the Gain setting can make even the wimpiest pawn shop cheapo sound like it has serious cojones! And somehow it does it without making a passive bass sound "active".

I have the Xotic RC, AC and BB. I also have the MXR M233 Micro Amp + boost, but I just wanted the smallest form factor, so I bought the Kokko Mini Pedal Booster for about $35. It's fantastic.

 

[Ggaa]

How about MEC?

 

[Clark W]

I wasn't going to make a specific recommendation before hearing back from the OP, nor do I like the look of "jumping on the bandwagon", but everyone here does make a great point; the Delano JMVC's are modern sounding, very bold and not for the faint of heart.

Interestingly, and I'm only speaking for myself, running them passively is just fine. No slam on those who prefer active systems, but for those particular pickups, pumping them through a couple of different preamps...a John East and an Audere JZ3...just felt like I was gilding the lily. So, I decided to go passive and paired them with some of the brightest strings I have in my collection as an experiment...a set of D'Addario FlexSteels. Suffice it to say, they're still incredibly thumpy and mean sounding!

So, while I found my particular "alchemy", a bit of magic that will vary from person to person, the root of it all was the Delano pups with those big, honkin' pole pieces!

These are going in a custom build, passive, V V T, and a 3 way toggle, Serial / Parallel / Single Coil for the bridge.
I spent a little bit of time talking to the guys at Fat Bass Tone about using them in a passive setup. Seen a few demos and was impressed by all of them. And two of those demos were passive setups.

 

[Malak the Mad]

These are going in a custom build, passive, V V T, and a 3 way toggle, Serial / Parallel / Single Coil for the bridge.
I spent a little bit of time talking to the guys at Fat Bass Tone about using them in a passive setup. Seen a few demos and was impressed by all of them. And two of those demos were passive setups.

View attachment 7286222 View attachment 7286223 View attachment 7286224

I'm planning on doing something similar. I have an old Fender Reggie Hamilton Jazz control plate built like this one, that I plan on finally using...

...and a series/parallel wiring harness by way of a push-pull pot in the neck volume spot. If all goes according to plan, mine should work like so;

1. Neck volume + series/parallel switching
2. Bridge volume
3. Tone
4. Mini-toggle to switch the bridge humbucker between dual-coil and rear-coil modes

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

Audere 4 Band Jazz preamp, a good set of strings and proper setup.

Trust me, I did that to a Chinese Fender Modern Player Jazz V and it's night and day.

Apologies for the different language in the video (yup, I'm Brazilian), but I would like to post it as a complement to my previous post. Might give you an idea of the results of things I've been saying....

 

[Deleted member 271037]

With you being in the UK my first thought was The Creamery. He makes SUPERB pickups at reasonable prices (if you're willing to wait a couple of months for delivery...). I haven't tried his J-bass pickups though. I think they are more vintage-oriented so probably not what you want. You could try sending him an email and explain what you're looking for. He builds all his pickups to order, so you might get one made to your desired specs (if he bothers checking his email... communication isn't always the best IME).

But it sounds to me like you might like some kind of split coil. The Seymour D Apollos are great for a fatter, kinda P-bass'ish tone. Some DiMarzios are also great for "J-bass on steroids". Maybe Nordstrand too, although for MY taste their pickups are generally TOO extreme, with a sort of "more of everything" philosophy that I've personally never liked much. With every Nordstrand pickup I've ever played I always feel like my bass is constantly "shouting". I always feel like I need to hold back a bit when playing Nordstrands. You might like them though. Lots of people do.

FWIW my personal favorite J-bass pickups are the standard Fralins, but I'm more into vintage voiced J-bass pickups (although Fralins take on the J-bass is slightly more "hi-fi" than most vintage J-basses to my ears). Fralin also have split coils for J-bass, but I've never tried those.

One more thing: Does that bass have a CTS mini-pot for the mid control? I've seen more than a few of these pots go bad in recent years, on basses from around that era. The pots disintegrate, with the chassis more or less falling apart. Fender must have gotten a HUGE batch of bad quality pots from CTS at some point. I honestly don't remember if this is only happening with the MIM Deluxe basses, or if it affects the American Deluxe basses too, but if that mid pots starts to feel a bit wobbly you might want to replace it when you're doing these upgrades, because once it starts to feel loose/wobbly it WILL fail. Finding the right type of mini-pot can be a bit difficult. But of course, if you're gonna replace the preamp altogether this won't matter.

 

[ijump206]

I have a 2006 American Deluxe 5 with the same preamp and pickups, and I have a very similar set of issues. I have basically stopped playing it, which is a shame, as it is a lovely bass. I will be watching this thread very closely....