• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

File sharing doesn't hurt musicians

#321
HolmeBass said:
It's one thing to borrow a CD, listen to it, and return it. Quite another to make a copy and listen to it in perpetuity, and especially to then distribute other copies to other people.
Click to expand...

You're going to have people who claim that "theft (or whatever they'd prefer to call it) is theft" but let's be reasonable here. There's a big difference between going into a supermarket and stealing one candy bar versus going in and completely emptying the shelves. To equate the making of a mixtape for one friend with the placement of a file online where it will be accessible by potentially millions of people is silly.
 
#322
FretNoMore said:
Nope, you guys need to read up on copyright laws.

It's quite OK to print someone's photo and hang it on your wall at home, and it's actually also OK to copy a CD and give it to a friend.

It is however not OK to publish said picture or CD online and make them available to the whole world. That includes using someones picture in your blog, or publish an MP3 or video of someone's song on YouTube.
Click to expand...
I am afraid you are wrong. Van Rock even posted the link to the NYT article saying how snapping a picture of a work of art in a gallery, a work not in the public domain, and then printing it and hanging it on your wall is illegal. Not even fair use covers this.
 
#323
FretNoMore said:
Search the web. ;)

I'm quite sure the first part is true, downloading and printing a picture and hanging it on the wall of your home is considered personal use and considered OK pretty much everywhere. (Unless the picture was first unlawfully published online, that is). I deal with that in my photography business.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the problem; the original post was about going into an art gallery and snapping photos of pictures not yet in the public domain.

FretNoMore said:
I'll have to go back on the copying of the CD to a friend or family member though, that differs between countries and is I understand it not OK for instance in the US. It is where I live, and content creators are indirectly compensated by a tax on writeable media such as magnetic tape, blank CDs, MP3 players, hard drives etc that can be used for such copies.
.
Click to expand...
For you to make a copy *for yourself* of works you have paid for, for the purposes of backup. Not to distribute to anyone else.
 
#324
SidMau said:
These things you call crimes are only social stipulations. They are intangible concepts defined by humans. Laws did not exist until we made them and it is us who consider it immoral or unethical to disobey laws.
random food for thought :)
Click to expand...

And laws change with the times. Some things that were legal in the past are not legal now and vice versa. It usually takes lawmakers years to catch up to changes in society.

Today, file sharing at worst is copyright infringement. It's not a violation of some ancient moral code. I'm curious to see what the copyright infringement laws will look like in 5 or 10 years because technology is making the current laws futile and meaningless.
 
#326
Discussing copyright is a bit of a can of worms really, the laws are not the same everywhere so to argue about what's allowed or not you first have to define which country you're talking about. EU does not have the US fair use concept for instance, and the US does not seem to allow the personal use copying I mentioned earlier. So if things get confused maybe it's because we're really discussing from quite different realities.

For me it's actually easier to go by what feels morally or ethically right - if it's not yours and you don't have permission from the owner, don't re-publish it.
.
 
#327
AaronVonRock said:
And laws change with the times. Some things that were legal in the past are not legal now and vice versa. It usually takes lawmakers years to catch up to changes in society.

Today, file sharing at worst is copyright infringement. It's not a violation of some ancient moral code. I'm curious to see what the copyright infringement laws will look like in 5 or 10 years because technology is making the current laws futile and meaningless.
Click to expand...

Copyright infringement is, at it's heart, a theft of someone else's intellectual property. Theft actually is a violation of some ancient moral code, among them one of which in part reads, "Thou shalt not steal." Ask Agammenon how he felt when Helen was spirited off to Troy.
 
#329
rocksmoot said:
Copyright infringement is, at it's heart, a theft of someone else's intellectual property. Theft actually is a violation of some ancient moral code, among them one of which in part reads, "Thou shalt not steal." Ask Agammenon how he felt when Helen was spirited off to Troy.
Click to expand...

honestly, I wouldn't sweat trying to argue with these people anymore. There's always a percentage of the population that's going to rationalize immoral behavior one way or the other, that's human behavior: theft. End of story.

You've argued well Rocksmoot and I've really enjoyed your responses, but I'm afraid you're tilting at windmills here, sorry, or to quote King Crimson: you talk to the wind, your words are all carried away :hmm:
 
#330
rocksmoot said:
Copyright infringement is, at it's heart, a theft of someone else's intellectual property. Theft actually is a violation of some ancient moral code, among them one of which in part reads, "Thou shalt not steal." Ask Agammenon how he felt when Helen was spirited off to Troy.
Click to expand...

Are you actually making a comparison between file sharing and kidnapping? That's pretty out there. I respect your opinion, but your posts have undertones of religious fanaticism that I find creepy. Take care of yourself and try not to do anything rash.
 
#331
SidMau said:
These things you call crimes are only social stipulations. They are intangible concepts defined by humans. Laws did not exist until we made them and it is us who consider it immoral or unethical to disobey laws. Is there anything wrong in anarchy, a lack of government, law? Yes, because we have been raised to think that that is the right way to do things (with a government, justice system, etc...) Couldn't a socialistic system succeed in the music industry? That's how American football generally functions, why not the same for artists and musicians?

random food for thought :)
Click to expand...

Where did you come up with this nonsense? It sounds like '60's new age hogwash. Sure, if we throw out all the rules then everything is alright ... Until it happens to you. :rollno:
 
#332
AaronVonRock said:
Are you actually making a comparison between file sharing and kidnapping? That's pretty out there. I respect your opinion, but your posts have undertones of religious fanaticism that I find creepy. Take care of yourself and try not to do anything rash.
Click to expand...

back in the day women were men's property in most societies, include ancient Greece.

So his comment is spot on and gets extra points for citing classical literature :cool:

Also keep in mind you're hearing comments from someone who's livelihood depends on respect of IP laws, including copyright infringement. Try doing that for a living yourself and see how you feel. I know many doing just that living in the SF Bay Area, they feel the same way.
 
#333
AaronVonRock said:
Are you actually making a comparison between file sharing and kidnapping? That's pretty out there. I respect your opinion, but your posts have undertones of religious fanaticism that I find creepy. Take care of yourself and try not to do anything rash.
Click to expand...

I see the whole idea of analogies is lost on this one. :rollno:

And I'm still waiting for a reply to some of my questions, AaronVonRock. Are you paid to teach? Did you ever make your living as a musician?
 
#335
FretNoMore said:
Discussing copyright is a bit of a can of worms really, the laws are not the same everywhere so to argue about what's allowed or not you first have to define which country you're talking about.
.
Click to expand...

You make a good point. US law is not international law. Just because US lawmakers and lobbyists got some laws passed regarding copyright infringement and trademarks doesn't mean the entire planet agrees with them.

There's a lot of wiggle room when it comes to these issues in other parts of the world, especially Asia. I think there are some really positive effects to information being accessible to all people, not just to people who have the money and the means to "legally" buy it.

It's a moot argument anyway. Anyone who has a computer or mobile phone can digitally download pretty much anything they want for free. That's probably not going to change anytime soon. Maybe never.
 
#337
AaronVonRock said:
You make a good point. US law is not international law. Just because US lawmakers and lobbyists got some laws passed regarding copyright infringement and trademarks doesn't mean the entire planet agrees with them.

There's a lot of wiggle room when it comes to these issues in other parts of the world, especially Asia. I think there are some really positive effects to information being accessible to all people, not just to people who have the money and the means to "legally" buy it.

It's a moot argument anyway. Anyone who has a computer or mobile phone can digitally download pretty much anything they want for free. That's probably not going to change anytime soon. Maybe never.
Click to expand...

so you don't give a rat's behind about the effect of downloading upon your fellow musicians, do you? :rollno:
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back