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File sharing doesn't hurt musicians

#42
the big budget albums are getting more scarce, and what suffers is the art.
someone mentioned Steely Dan records, and how they could not be made in today's environment....I agree, though, they would still be made, but they'd be done using ableton & pro-tools, using mostly midi instrumentation all sync'd to a clock. So no groove and not nearly as many real players.
 
#44
rogersjoe said:
Record labels are not willing to take big fianacial risks with bands nowadays because there is a chance they won't make their money back.
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Record labels are going the way of the Dodo bird. I predict that in another ten years they won't exist, unless they can develop a sustainable business model which uses today's technology to their benefit, rather than trying to fight it.
 
#46
I was talking with a coworker yesterday who downloads everything (music, movies, TV shows). He just turned 60. He said he's finished paying for the same music over and over. First, he bought music on LP. Then, the same titles on cassette. And then, the same titles again on CD.

I did the same thing in the late 80s/early 90s when I transitioned much of my massive cassette collection to CD. Now when I travel, I can fit most of my music collection on a hand-held device. There's no way I'm spending all of that money again just so I can have the luxury of transferring it to MP3. Fool me once...
 
#47
This thread should have been titled: "File Stealing doesn't hurt musicians".

The music biz is much more complicated today with the technology that is available and at our fingertips. IMO, there are several posts in this thread that are spot on. At age 58, I have seen this industry morph thru the changes mentioned above by several of you. Musicians must adapt to this ever changing landscape we call the music business. If merchandise and on site sales are a more profitable way to go, so be it. But I don't see anyone walking up to the concert sales table and walking away with a t-shirt or cd without paying for it. IMO, stealing a song or file without the musicians and/or songwriter getting their proper percentage of it is not the right nor ethical way.
 
#48
There will always be a contingent who willingly pays for music, because they want more of it and know that an artist must be able to afford to make it. Market to those people. They want to support worthwhile art. Make your music mean something. Make people want to support it. Offer something unique. Seriously. Use your imagination. It's not impossible. People do it every day. We can't fight the current state of affairs, but we can work in/around/through it.

(Yes, I fully realize that relying on people to "do the right thing" in 2013 may be an exercise in futility, but it has kept me out of a day job so far...)
 
#49
It's very simple. If someone is selling something, and you take it without paying for it, you are stealing, and it is theft.

You can argue all you want about how it should be, how times have changed, how musicians should change their expectations, etc. And some of those arguments may be very good and insightful.

But, if you personally take something that is being sold without paying for it, you are stealing. You don't have the right to decide for someone else whether or not it's hurting them.

We need to separate the philosophical/academic business discussion from the actual acts of theft. It's possible to have a healthy debate/discussion of the former, but the latter is black and white.
 
#50
Red Four said:
It's very simple. If someone is selling something, and you take it without paying for it, you are stealing, and it is theft.

You can argue all you want about how it should be, how times have changed, how musicians should change their expectations, etc. And some of those arguments may be very good and insightful.

But, if you personally take something that is being sold without paying for it, you are stealing. You don't have the right to decide for someone else whether or not it's hurting them.

We need to separate the philosophical/academic business discussion from the actual acts of theft. It's possible to have a healthy debate/discussion of the former, but the latter is black and white.
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+1 it is theft.
 
#52
Red Four said:
We need to separate the philosophical/academic business discussion from the actual acts of theft. It's possible to have a healthy debate/discussion of the former, but the latter is black and white.
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I agree that it's black and white, and that stealing is wrong. But it won't stop, no matter what anyone thinks about it. It will only increase. We can jump up and down and stamp our feet shouting "You're WRONG!!!" all day long and it won't change a thing. For this reason I believe that discussing it is purely academic and won't solve anything. The important thing is how to work around the issue in a sensible, sustainable way.
 
#54
VanillaThundah said:
To cite specifically, the guys from Scale the Summit (according to their frontman, Chris Letchford) make most of their money on merch sales...and according to them this is what most of the smart bands do when they want to turn a decent profit.
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The only reason merch makes profit is because nearly all of it is made by Asian slaves in sweatshops for dirt. CDs, clothes, stickers, etc.

Just as someone predicted in 10 years the record co's will be gone, so the same in 10 years will Asians stop strapping millstones to their back and break the bonds. Merch will meet the demise when those dollars turn back into pennies and the margins get gutted.
 
#55
dmusic148 said:
I agree that it's black and white, and that stealing is wrong. But it won't stop, no matter what anyone thinks about it. It will only increase. We can jump up and down and stamp our feet shouting "You're WRONG!!!" all day long and it won't change a thing. For this reason I believe that discussing it is purely academic and won't solve anything. The important thing is how to work around the issue in a sensible, sustainable way.
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Killing won't stop either; I'm thinking we should work around then in a sensible, sustainable way. Only one kill per year. Get it out of your system.

:eyebrow::scowl:

I think the sensible way is to enforce the laws. I'd be content seeing some people get locked up. If I can go to jail for swiping a box of cereal or a candy bar, I should go to jail for stealing 5000 songs - especially if they are selling for $1 each.
 
#56
Everybody who steals will always have an excuse. Blame the man or the system or anybody else other than your entitled attitude.

As for the comparison earlier of music-making not being a 'needed' commodity like food or plumbing, the goods or services offered by trained or talented producers still means it has some value. Many things in the modern world are not essential, but still imbued with value. Therefore anyone who supplies 'music' worth having should be compensated for their effort. Tattoos aren't 'essential' either; try to get one done for free. Better still, have one done, then tell the artist that you're not paying; "too late, sucka!" See what happens next.

Note that this does not mean every idiot with a guitar and CD burner should be getting rich. Nor am I endorsing the greed of record labels. But if you like a band or musician enough to want to keep a copy of their work, why don't you want to pay them for it? And as pointed out earlier, living off of merch isn't always an option for every musician.

I'll ask the OP again: are you willing to work for free?

As for what jazz guys in the 20's & 30's did, it's obvious that most of them were dirt-poor all their lives. How many well-off jazz musicians from that era can you name? How many of them should have been more fairly compensated? For any one you can think of, there were dozens who were forced to tour constantly and even then never managed to come close to breaking even. In this day and age, they could have been, and should be.
 
#58
#59
#60
mcarp555 said:
I'll ask the OP again: are you willing to work for free?
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Yes, I am. I volunteer quite a bit of my free time without compensation. For example:

I volunteered as a tutor for Literacy Volunteers of America off and on for three years.

I was a Big Brothers/Big Sisters volunteer in Atlanta, GA from 1998-2000.

I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Tonga from 2001-2003.

Currently, I volunteer two hours a week tutoring refugee students in Bangkok, Thailand.
 

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