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Finally Played One and It Was Terrifying. ;)
- Thread starter SRCRS
- Start date
As for a comparison "wrapped in mattresses" sounds about right. Compared to the fEARfuls the Ampeg 810 sounded dull. The fEARfuls had much more presence, more bottom end and they sounded cleaner/clearer than the 810.
As the for head I was using it was a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0, I also tried an Eden head I think it was an older WT400? (I cant quite remember). Both sounded good through it, personally I liked the GB Shuttle better.
The issue we face on this forum is a lot of talk about comparing Cabs/Heads/Amps does some down to a matter of personal opinion. However, I think that if you were to set up a blind taste test. Of a fEARful vs. ?? all other things (the head) being equal. I'd imagine most people are gonna pick the fEARful. And I'm not afraid.. (pun intended) to make that statement. Also, I think that given the chance for someone to EQ the head to their preference and switching between fEARfuls and something else, they would like the sound through the fEARful more.
Once again, what I have to say here will be useless for those with dissenting opinions. So I say again, just figure out a way to go play one... And be convinced.
If so I suspect user error / weak EQ Kung Fu. There are lots of cabs out there that have baked in EQ curves and/or response bandwidth limitations that are hard to buck - the fEARful line aint in that set.
Consistent with the OP's experiences detailed above, I have watched and listened to several players try their axe+head through my fEARfuls [everything from vintage Ampeg, to Eden, to Mesa 400+, to modern micro heads, to various preamp / power amp rigs] both in studio and on outdoor stages. To a man they all quickly dialed in what they were looking for and ended up with a big fat grin. In many cases their tone goals were far from my tastes yet still the fEARful cabs served and yielded intense satisfaction.
I believe this results because the fEARful is much flatter in response than traditional bass cabs, much extended in usable bandwidth, and much better at broadcasting a consistent response across a wide dispersion angle.
Many players use the term "uncolored" in reaction to their first fEARful experience because their ear is accurate/sophisticated enough to discern that it is relatively flat compared to traditional cabs. Example - a ground plane measurement of a 1515/66 up to about 4k Hz - no smoothing:
In my opinion and per direct experience, anyone who has the EQ mojo to get a workable sound out of an Ampeg 8x10 will find a fEARful a breeze to manipulate into whatever voicing they prefer. They also have the ability to explore higher output unavailable on the venerable 'fridge [particularly below 100 or above 2k Hz].
Chef
In Memoriam
Just because people don't, or, do like fF stuff -does not- by default indicate user misunderstanding or error, in either case.
There are plenty of people who know what eq is, and does, and find their preferred tone and SPL elsewhere, and that's just fine.
Like what you like. Don't like what you don't like.
To say that the fF line are "uncolored" isn't exactly accurate either.
Every last dang piece of gear ever made has "baked in something."
In the fF case, it's a different something than most other somethings. And that's fine.
Which -is exactly- why some folks won't find their tone in them.
You like them? Great.
They work for you? Awesome.
They --are not-- the absolute last word, that work for all people, at all times, under all circumstances; nor --should they be--.
There's plenty of good reasons to have various flavors of things available.
As a side note; I do actually own and use such things, and like them well for some things, and less well for other things.
QUOTE=Foz;13351642]If so I suspect user error / weak EQ Kung Fu. There are lots of cabs out there that have baked in EQ curves and/or response bandwidth limitations that are hard to buck - the fEARful line aint in that set.
Many players use the term "uncolored" in reaction to their first fEARful experience because their ear is accurate/sophisticated enough to discern that it is relatively flat compared to traditional cabs. [/QUOTE]
There are plenty of people who know what eq is, and does, and find their preferred tone and SPL elsewhere, and that's just fine.
Like what you like. Don't like what you don't like.
To say that the fF line are "uncolored" isn't exactly accurate either.
Every last dang piece of gear ever made has "baked in something."
In the fF case, it's a different something than most other somethings. And that's fine.
Which -is exactly- why some folks won't find their tone in them.
You like them? Great.
They work for you? Awesome.
They --are not-- the absolute last word, that work for all people, at all times, under all circumstances; nor --should they be--.
There's plenty of good reasons to have various flavors of things available.
As a side note; I do actually own and use such things, and like them well for some things, and less well for other things.
QUOTE=Foz;13351642]If so I suspect user error / weak EQ Kung Fu. There are lots of cabs out there that have baked in EQ curves and/or response bandwidth limitations that are hard to buck - the fEARful line aint in that set.
Many players use the term "uncolored" in reaction to their first fEARful experience because their ear is accurate/sophisticated enough to discern that it is relatively flat compared to traditional cabs. [/QUOTE]
Honestly, I think EQ failure is the #1 cause of gear dissatisfaction, Chef (with pretty much any decent gear). The number of guys who know how to get good results with EQ is so very small, definitely the exception.
Some people disagree with me but I think engineered cabinets that make clear, honest assessments of design tradeoffs are the last word in bass cabinets. It hasn't trickled out to the community yet, but it will. The days of chucking a bunch of random speakers into a 3/4" plywood box are numbered
Some people disagree with me but I think engineered cabinets that make clear, honest assessments of design tradeoffs are the last word in bass cabinets. It hasn't trickled out to the community yet, but it will. The days of chucking a bunch of random speakers into a 3/4" plywood box are numbered
Haven't "engineered" bass cabinets been around for 20+ years at this point? To that end, aren't all cabinets engineered, even if they don't have a crossover and three way design?
If you asked me, I'd tell you that most players are dissatisfied with there gear because 1) they aren't loud enough or 2) they get GAS from TB.
I took a break from gigging for a few months, and I lent my LDS 15/6 to a friend who normally gigs a SVT and a sealed 410. Honestly, I was convinced that he would love it so much that he would order his own. When he brought it back I asked him how he liked it. He says "I liked my Ampeg gear better". Different strokes....
Most bass players don't see the deficiencies in commercially available cabs that some boutique cab owners see. We all might get old waiting for the revolution.
If you asked me, I'd tell you that most players are dissatisfied with there gear because 1) they aren't loud enough or 2) they get GAS from TB.
I took a break from gigging for a few months, and I lent my LDS 15/6 to a friend who normally gigs a SVT and a sealed 410. Honestly, I was convinced that he would love it so much that he would order his own. When he brought it back I asked him how he liked it. He says "I liked my Ampeg gear better". Different strokes....
Most bass players don't see the deficiencies in commercially available cabs that some boutique cab owners see. We all might get old waiting for the revolution.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
When I was a kid, I eq'd every amp with every cab the way I decided 'it should be' and judged the gear accordingly...very dumb, but hey, I didn't know! I also learned about ohms by the fires I'd started
There's no shame in needing to do a rethink from time to time...always something to learn, and that's the good news.
There's no shame in needing to do a rethink from time to time...always something to learn, and that's the good news.
I've been itching to try a fearful, i'd love a 4 ohm 12/6 but apparently they are 8 ohm...
One thing to maybe consider, when looking at the overall picture of a band's sound, is that cabinet choice that has certain limitations can make sense in a way...
if you are playing with a horn section, backup singers, drums and percussion player, guitar and keyboards for example (afrobeat band) and you don't slap or pop, well, what use is a tweet in the cab going to be?
Or say you play sub/dub bass exclusively in a group,
how useful is that upper mid range driver or tweet going to be?
I'm not knocking any cab, just throwing out there that some cabs might be better choices than others in context.
Context is key.
Cheers
One thing to maybe consider, when looking at the overall picture of a band's sound, is that cabinet choice that has certain limitations can make sense in a way...
if you are playing with a horn section, backup singers, drums and percussion player, guitar and keyboards for example (afrobeat band) and you don't slap or pop, well, what use is a tweet in the cab going to be?
Or say you play sub/dub bass exclusively in a group,
how useful is that upper mid range driver or tweet going to be?
I'm not knocking any cab, just throwing out there that some cabs might be better choices than others in context.
Context is key.
Cheers
You would be surprised what that mid range driver adds even if you are a dubber. Burningskies and ::Bassist:: are good examples of this. 'Skies playes reggae and swears he can hear that mid driver. ::Bassist:: recently tried a 12sub and reports that it is not a suitable stand alone cab.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I can say a few great reggae/dub players use a 1515/66 or a 15/6 &15sub, and claim it's the ultimate dub cab because of the huge, clear low end. Midrange is a bit much? Turn it down? Tweet is too much? Turn it off
This isn't an argument for greenboy cabs specifically, so in general, I'd rather have 'too much' of everything and turn it down, rather than have 'not enough' of something that leaves me no options. Just sayin'
Great points.
Fwiw I play dub and get what you are saying,
and have used all types of cabs, including separate extension subs.
However, paying money for components I won't use doesn't make sense to me, and probably others, financially.
I'm thinking more of the overall band sound, and what you really hear in context, as opposed to solo ideals.
In that case, there are quite a few bands where something like an svt makes more sense.
But once again, points are well taken, and i'm looking forward to trying a fearful some time.
cheers
Fwiw I play dub and get what you are saying,
and have used all types of cabs, including separate extension subs.
However, paying money for components I won't use doesn't make sense to me, and probably others, financially.
I'm thinking more of the overall band sound, and what you really hear in context, as opposed to solo ideals.
In that case, there are quite a few bands where something like an svt makes more sense.
But once again, points are well taken, and i'm looking forward to trying a fearful some time.
cheers
I ran an Acme 2x10 for a few years. Great cab, design & value but...
my ears just couldn't get use to it.
Hope to try a fEarful someday.
Currently pumping Eden 2x10 XST.
my ears just couldn't get use to it.
Hope to try a fEarful someday.
Currently pumping Eden 2x10 XST.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Keep in mind, you can order ANY greenboy cab without the tweet, and many choose to do that...the way most dubsters would eq their rigs, the tweet would never engage anyway, so agreed...what's the point of the added weight and expense?
I play mostly loud, gut string upright bass in the slap style and the tweet just adds a enough detail and sweetness to be worth it for me...but that's me
You'd have to hear the mid driver in context to determine whether it would work in you, but I suspect you'd love it...for all intents, cranking the lows makes the mids harder to hear anyway...just a matter of finding the right balance for you.
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
Because if you ever wanted that crisper tone, or someone else using your rig wanted it, or you wanted to DJ some sick beats at a house party, you could.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Of course! I put em in all of my personal cabs, because I can turn em off when they're not needed...but I sometimes use them for drum machines, synth, PA monitors, practice mains, etc...Just saying if someone really does NOT want one, they can be had without
Recently with one of the groups I play with we have been running everything minus the drummer through my '66. The keys player would not be a happy camper with out the tweeter.
My opinion is that marketing and financials drive most bass cab design decisions more than engineering. Obviously cost is v am issue but the interplay is important
I have played through various models and own a 3 way cab that I really love (though not a fF) - and I also have an ampeg810 that I REALLY enjoy being able to take out from time to time; they do both sound very different for sure. Sometimes I don't take a cab at all and just go through my REDDI to the PA and love that as well. But one thing seems to be consistent in all this, as long as I groove and play my part well the audience does not know a difference at all or do they frankly care. Although, I will say that my musician friends all usually prefer the 810 because, like mentioned above, to many ears that is the sound.
