Finally starting my OWN project

[Remyd]

So, as I've been looking for some band-mates, I've noticed that nobody wants to play what I want to play. Not that I'm surprised, mind, but I did need advice. TB, as always, came to the rescue with a mass of conflicting opinions and handy links.

Saga: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/when-does-it-turn-into-an-audition.1070654/

After reading all of that and trying a dozen different groups/folks with basically no success, I think it might be time to start my own project. This is exceptionally scary for me, since I've always been an in-the-pocket rythym player or a sideman or an orchestral member; never a band leader. I'm a business guy irl, so I always like to gather my requirements before I do anything. I'm sort of looking for feedback to see what I'm missing.

The factors (I think) I'm going to use to put this together:

• A left-of-the-dial four or five piece band (bass, drum, vox, guitar-or-backup-vox-or-keys-or-horn) playing Blues (leaning St. Louis/Memphis style) and Jazz standards (built around the abilities of the melodic players).

• Everyone comes from CL (personal requirement, not negotiable and knowingly stupid but whatever) and gets along personally. Age isn't that important generally, as long as x>21, and gender isn't important at all.

• Instrumentalists need to have a minimal level of musicianship and be able to learn reasonably quickly. Absolutely must know the difference between chords and cords. I am automatically suspicious of the "I can learn anything by ear" folks.

• Vocalist needs to have an attractive timbre (tone), medium-good range and substantial endurance. It would also be nice if they knew some/a bunch of songs in this genre for a quick start.

• Everybody has their own gear and pays their own expenses. No band collective accounts/gear/etc. Distribution of payments bi-weekly by share-after-expenses (musicians, bl, agent, PA provider, etc).

• 1x-2x weekly practice looking to start gigging (ie. have 3 full sets nailed and at least 2 gigs booked) by mid-summer, no more than 2x weekly. All gigs within 100 miles. Pay to be depressingly low.

I'm probably going to start auditioning folks in a couple of weeks. What else do I need to know before I embark on this (almost certainly) harrowing journey?

 

[sparkyfender2]

Good luck in your venture! Sounds like you know what you want up front.

"Pay to be depressingly low."

Ouch. At least you are honest about it.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Most of my thoughts are re $$$

1. Not sure what level gigs you are going for, but non-established bands are not going to get prime gigs from an agent. Maybe save money and hustle gigs on your own, at least til you get a reputation where an agent will be worth the money.

2. Not sure what you mean by expenses. If you mean bl and/orwhoever owns the PA gets a larger share, make sure that is spelled out so everyone knows that. Check threads here, but opinions seem to be equally split as to whether that is fair.

3. For the level of musician you are looking for, CL may not be the best source. Like anything else, personal contacts helps, often more than CL responses.

Good luck.

 

[fishdreams]

I think you could be a bit more specific: What are the places you expect to play? What is your long term vision?

I guess what I am missing the most in this otherwise OK list: an inspiring reason why you want to do this and why someone should join: for example, why you really love that style of music - Things that could make possible applicants feel enthusiastic about this venture, in addition to just listing everything there 'should' be. As a band leader, you're not only responsible, you are also the main inspiring motor. If you don't believe in it, your band mates won't either. As a musician who sees an ad, I'd like to feel that you really believe in this project.

 

[Remyd]

3. For the level of musician you are looking for, CL may not be the best source. Like anything else, personal contacts helps, often more than CL responses.

Is it really that hard to find musicians that know about music? They don't need to be virtuoso or anything. CL is a personal thing; that's not something that can change.

 

[GKon]

I wish you all the best! It may be a tough road at times, but well worth it if/when it all comes together.

 

[buldog5151bass]

When I think jazz standards, I think musicians who can read, and are a little more trained - not what I havecome across on CL. I wish you luck.

 

[Renaissance]

Don't forget the very basic stuff. Where are you going to rehearse? Do you have all the PA gear and lights you need? If not, how are you going to get them? Do you have contacts for gigs? How are you going to get gigs?

Don't expect anyone else to be as committed to the project as you. Hope for the best, expect...well, not the best.

Good luck!

 

[ImNotJoel]

I wish you the best, there is one way you could go about it. I don't know how much material you have, how many instruments you play also if you can record. You could record your songs with as many instruments you play so say you make a bass track, and guitar track. You can go on CL and say I am a solo musician post you recording and say looking for someone to make a drum track, vocals, and keys. That way they are joining your project. Many people on CL are in their ways and want to do their stuff. That way when they join they know it's your project and vision.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I have always found that it's easier to put a band together, and get them to rehearse a few times, if there are gigs already booked. I know that sounds like a "cart before the horse" scenario but surely you have a connection who believes in you enough to give you your first booking. Or perhaps you know someone who has to turn down a gig for whatever reason and they can recommend you.

Get some kind of promo video happening as soon as you can. It doesn't have to be great, or polished, or "professional", but just enough to show what you look like and a few of your tunes to give perspective clients and idea. Put it up on Youtube and make yourself a website, using a free service if necessary, with pictures, bios, etc, so that you can email this information around to perspective clients and venues.

Yes, you can be the band leader without being the front person. Hire your people wisely. Sometimes the best player or singer might not be the best choice depending on how much baggage and drama they carry around with them. If you plan on reading fake books make sure your musicians are up to par. Break a leg!

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Joe Louvar]

So, as I've been looking for some band-mates, I've noticed that nobody wants to play what I want to play. Not that I'm surprised, mind, but I did need advice. TB, as always, came to the rescue with a mass of conflicting opinions and handy links.

Saga: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/when-does-it-turn-into-an-audition.1070654/

After reading all of that and trying a dozen different groups/folks with basically no success, I think it might be time to start my own project. This is exceptionally scary for me, since I've always been an in-the-pocket rythym player or a sideman or an orchestral member; never a band leader. I'm a business guy irl, so I always like to gather my requirements before I do anything. I'm sort of looking for feedback to see what I'm missing.

The factors (I think) I'm going to use to put this together:

• A left-of-the-dial four or five piece band (bass, drum, vox, guitar-or-backup-vox-or-keys-or-horn) playing Blues (leaning St. Louis/Memphis style) and Jazz standards (built around the abilities of the melodic players).

• Everyone comes from CL (personal requirement, not negotiable and knowingly stupid but whatever) and gets along personally. Age isn't that important generally, as long as x>21, and gender isn't important at all.

• Instrumentalists need to have a minimal level of musicianship and be able to learn reasonably quickly. Absolutely must know the difference between chords and cords. I am automatically suspicious of the "I can learn anything by ear" folks.

• Vocalist needs to have an attractive timbre (tone), medium-good range and substantial endurance. It would also be nice if they knew some/a bunch of songs in this genre for a quick start.

• Everybody has their own gear and pays their own expenses. No band collective accounts/gear/etc. Distribution of payments bi-weekly by share-after-expenses (musicians, bl, agent, PA provider, etc).

• 1x-2x weekly practice looking to start gigging (ie. have 3 full sets nailed and at least 2 gigs booked) by mid-summer, no more than 2x weekly. All gigs within 100 miles. Pay to be depressingly low.

I'm probably going to start auditioning folks in a couple of weeks. What else do I need to know before I embark on this (almost certainly) harrowing journey?

I wish you the very best of luck, expressly with little to no pay. BTW, do you sing or are you starting an instrumental only jazz group?

 

[Remyd]

Don't forget the very basic stuff. Where are you going to rehearse? Do you have all the PA gear and lights you need? If not, how are you going to get them? Do you have contacts for gigs? How are you going to get gigs?

These are really good questions. Answering more for myself than TB.

Have a rehearsal space, although it's multi-purpose, so would prefer not to leave setup.

Have a friend with some PA, but the volume I expect is pretty low, so we won't need too much. Even if I have to rent, $50 is the going rate for what we would need. Lights are a bit over the top for the concept.

Have some personal and professional contacts and am friends with a couple of local mover-and-shakers so at least the first few dates are no problem. I already have one booking in mid-August, which is the reason I'm starting now.

 

[Remyd]

I wish you the very best of luck, expressly with little to no pay. BTW, do you sing or are you starting an instrumental only jazz group?

Well, I sing (sort of), but am not at all comfortable with leads. I have a bunch of singers that I've worked with before, although only one or two would be good choices for this endeavor.

I like melodies, more when they're played by other people.

 

[Remyd]

You could record your songs with as many instruments you play so say you make a bass track, and guitar track. You can go on CL and say I am a solo musician post you recording and say looking for someone to make a drum track, vocals, and keys. That way they are joining your project.

This is a REALLY good idea. I only play the one instrument so it might be kinda difficult to make something that's all that "musical". If only I was a bit more talented...

 

[sean_on_bass]

Most of my thoughts are re $$$

1. Not sure what level gigs you are going for, but non-established bands are not going to get prime gigs from an agent. Maybe save money and hustle gigs on your own, at least til you get a reputation where an agent will be worth the money.

2. Not sure what you mean by expenses. If you mean bl and/orwhoever owns the PA gets a larger share, make sure that is spelled out so everyone knows that. Check threads here, but opinions seem to be equally split as to whether that is fair.

3. For the level of musician you are looking for, CL may not be the best source. Like anything else, personal contacts helps, often more than CL responses.

Good luck.

I want to re-iterate number 3 here. Finding competent jazz musicians, let alone 3 or 4 of them, is pretty difficult through craigslist, at least in my area. You may never get the personell to get it off the ground. Might want to consider a couple other options for recruiting...

Also, practice 2x a week might be a little unrealistic, but if your band members have the time then go for it.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Is it really that hard to find musicians that know about music? ... CL is a personal thing; that's not something that can change.

It's not a matter of what you're looking for, it's a matter of where you're looking for it.
I understand this is A Personal Quest, so go for it.

But ask yourself - 'If I were the kind of musician I'm looking for, why wouldn't I already be doing it rather than reading CraigsList?'
You're looking for professional-level musicians that for some reason (NCAA restrictions, perhaps? ) need to protect and preserve their amateur standing. But are scanning CraigsList anyway. In the hopes of finding gigs that don't pay...

I think you'd probably be able to find enthusiastic if perhaps rusty people looking for fun and a challenge if you started putting up flyers where professionals (like engineers, accountants, secretaries...) hang out. People who can afford to do it for the fun. Deli's and pizza shops in office parks, for instance. But this is a CraigsList Quest, so nevermind...

 

[Remyd]

You may never get the personell to get it off the ground. Might want to consider a couple other options for recruiting...

The thing about CL for me is personal faith in the base premise that as long as the population is big enough, and you wait long enough, you can find ANYTHING. Wife? Job? Car? House? Another Car? Hot Water Heater? Website? Laptop? Couch? Lawn care? Microphone? I got an amazing example of each and every one of those on CL, so I have some (probably misplaced) faith in the power of the anarchist web. It might not be the easiest thing to manage, but it's possible.

Finding competent jazz musicians, let alone 3 or 4 of them, is pretty difficult through craigslist, at least in my area

Why is it that so many people are nervous when it comes to Jazz? Bass playing in general is quite often improv-ish, so I just don't see the issue. The basic format of Jazz standards is SO straightforward that I have trouble understanding why people are hesitant. I mean, verse-verse-solos-verse is not the most technical song construction. I guess it's the inverse of the reason that I'm terrified of Metal.

Solos are something else entirely, but still nothing to be worried about. I took 8 credit hours of music theory so that I could forget all of it and play solos that aren't any better (quite often worse) than they were before. I've always told people to start with a swung triplet b7 scale based on the change. You'd be surprised how much jazz is just variations on that theme.

Nobody need be a pro; I'm certainly not. I would classify myself as competent/mediocre. Competency (or the desire and work ethic to get there at least) is important though. Jazz <> Pro <> Talented - they're very, very separate.

Also, practice 2x a week might be a little unrealistic, but if your band members have the time then go for it.

Yeah, but in music, as in life, you need to leave yourself some headroom (negotiating space). I anticipate gathering the personnel will take longer than weaving them into a cohesive sound.

 

[Remyd]

In the hopes of finding gigs that don't pay...

... very well. I will probably leave that part out of the CL ad; thought it was clever, but the responses here indicate that I've surpassed my cleverness quota for the week.

Many most times jazz pays not-very-well (in 99, i made ~$20/hr+tips if you didn't include travel, or practice, or rehearsal, or setup, or teardown, or rentals, or PA, or booze, plus I already had a good slate of venues and plenty of gear). Weird blues isn't much better, although the potential is there if the lead players have the talent. $100 per person per 3-4 hour session is honestly top pay for up-and-comers around here. That's mostly due to the venues, which are almost never often not music-focused. $300 is a TON of money for a coffee house that might only pull in $800 revenue in that time frame, but nobody wants to hear Herbie Hancock 64 bar trumpet solos in a sports bar with 100 drunken patrons who might spend that same amount in half an hour. Most jazz-y people already know this.

Isn't a musician the guy that puts $5000 of gear into a $1000 car to drive 100 miles each way to play for $50?Finding gigs will be the easiest part of this project, by FAR.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Starting a band from scratch with 4-5 players is daunting. That's a LOT of schedules and drama to manage! ESPECIALLY for "depressingly low pay." See if your vision can accommodate a power trio. Would be much simpler to boot strap and possibly expand when you are established.

 

[ImNotJoel]

This is a REALLY good idea. I only play the one instrument (bodhran excepted) so it might be kinda difficult to make something that's all that "musical". If only I was a bit more talented...

Even if you are mono instrumental you can try and get a sample drum track or program it. DAWs are great for that expensive I don't have any at the moment because of the price but good since you can program drums and even chord progressions.

Even without tracks you can just record a song in your instrument of choice which I would assume is bass since your on TB. That way you can present your style and direction and even briefly describe how you want the parts played. That way you will find someone like minded. Since you play one instrument you need to find people who don't have an ego can make good riffs but also can listen and communicate. Also be willing to follow someone else's vision.