Hi,
I wish I still payed horn. I'd play in your band.
Break a leg!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
I wish I still payed horn. I'd play in your band.
Break a leg!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
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Finally starting my OWN project
- Thread starter Remyd
- Start date
Update: This weekend was a little sedate from a musical point of view but I did have what could charitably called a rehearsal with the singer (also the BL).
The practice space for this band is in a local small studio. That makes it much easier to hear what's going on (as opposed to the multi-use space that I have available). It also is obviously really good for noise control and easy to wire for sound. It's probably the best rehearsal space that I could even imagine. I thought that a quick session to run the vocals would be of major benefit of the singer, who really wasn't all that great last week. If we record, the guy can hear himself and maybe fix the mistakes. Figured out pretty quickly that plan might be a tad premature.
I knocked the set list down to 10 tunes, maybe 45 minutes with solos and whatnot, so we could get an honest target and have a "Crooner" kind of set to get started. I would rather get OK vocals on 10 than lousy vocals on 40. He agreed.
The singer didn't know the parts. He didn't know any of the tunes. He's the one that wrote the @#$% setlist and he DIDN'T KNOW *ANY* OF THE PARTS TO *ANY* OF THE TUNES! I'm talking about first-time-through jittery flip-flops in intonation, misreading lyrics, out-of-tune transitions, assault-and-battery on the tempo, all the stuff a vocalist (some/most, anyhow) can at least learn by just listening closely to the song a half-dozen times. I'm glad it was only me in the room, 'cause if anyone else from the band heard this guy caterwauling, they'd have bailed quick-quick.
He needed help, so I gave him a quick overview of how things might work. This was harder than it sounds. I had to explain the way a Jazz combo worked. I had to explain that when working with talented folks, the expectation is that you can sing/play through before you even walk into the room (how do you not know this). I had to explain what arrangements were (duh). I had to explain why big bands need an arrangement before they play a note (because 20 guys obviously all write their own parts in complex harmony). I had to show (and play) him what chords were and how they related to the melody. I had to say things like "You're a sound guy, you do this visually with waveforms and aurally with graphic EQ on every track; this is just on a piano" and "If you put 3 rockers in a room for a couple days they will either write a song or kill each other. If you put 3 jazz guys, they will still be soloing on the first chorus of Watermelon Man." The guy was clueless.
After jazz theory 101, we got down to work. On two songs. For an hour. (All of Me & Georgia on My Mind - for those that don't know, these are two of the more standard "standards" in crooner jazz. They're as straightforward as it gets.) I played piano for much of the time (a bad thing) and sang more than the vocalist (a very bad thing). He kept breaking down in the middle of the tunes and saying things like "What am I supposed to do here?" I told him "Jazz is about the now, man, for @#$%s sake don't stop; don't EVER stop. Just listen to the rhythm section and get back in when you can."
After an hour (and a break to keep my temper in check), I asked him to do some checkup exercises (la-la-lo-lo-le-le...) and sing Mary Had A Little Lamb in a variety of keys, styles, and tempos. His technique was a joke. In retrospect, I should not have done this. I should not have recorded it. I probably should not have deleted the recording either; could have used it for the OMGCHECKTHISBEFOREOUTLOL part of a before-and-after.
This guy sucked the suckity-suck in both practices and generally as a vocalist. I'm really worried now, but he promises to learn his parts by Thursday (next rehearsal, try-out for trumpet and keys). I sure hope he does it; his fringe benefits (free rehearsal space, PA, and recording, plus regular gigs later this summer) are @#$%ing awesome, but if he keeps sucking wind like he did this weekend it won't be worth the trouble.
The practice space for this band is in a local small studio. That makes it much easier to hear what's going on (as opposed to the multi-use space that I have available). It also is obviously really good for noise control and easy to wire for sound. It's probably the best rehearsal space that I could even imagine. I thought that a quick session to run the vocals would be of major benefit of the singer, who really wasn't all that great last week. If we record, the guy can hear himself and maybe fix the mistakes. Figured out pretty quickly that plan might be a tad premature.
I knocked the set list down to 10 tunes, maybe 45 minutes with solos and whatnot, so we could get an honest target and have a "Crooner" kind of set to get started. I would rather get OK vocals on 10 than lousy vocals on 40. He agreed.
The singer didn't know the parts. He didn't know any of the tunes. He's the one that wrote the @#$% setlist and he DIDN'T KNOW *ANY* OF THE PARTS TO *ANY* OF THE TUNES! I'm talking about first-time-through jittery flip-flops in intonation, misreading lyrics, out-of-tune transitions, assault-and-battery on the tempo, all the stuff a vocalist (some/most, anyhow) can at least learn by just listening closely to the song a half-dozen times. I'm glad it was only me in the room, 'cause if anyone else from the band heard this guy caterwauling, they'd have bailed quick-quick.
He needed help, so I gave him a quick overview of how things might work. This was harder than it sounds. I had to explain the way a Jazz combo worked. I had to explain that when working with talented folks, the expectation is that you can sing/play through before you even walk into the room (how do you not know this). I had to explain what arrangements were (duh). I had to explain why big bands need an arrangement before they play a note (because 20 guys obviously all write their own parts in complex harmony). I had to show (and play) him what chords were and how they related to the melody. I had to say things like "You're a sound guy, you do this visually with waveforms and aurally with graphic EQ on every track; this is just on a piano" and "If you put 3 rockers in a room for a couple days they will either write a song or kill each other. If you put 3 jazz guys, they will still be soloing on the first chorus of Watermelon Man." The guy was clueless.
After jazz theory 101, we got down to work. On two songs. For an hour. (All of Me & Georgia on My Mind - for those that don't know, these are two of the more standard "standards" in crooner jazz. They're as straightforward as it gets.) I played piano for much of the time (a bad thing) and sang more than the vocalist (a very bad thing). He kept breaking down in the middle of the tunes and saying things like "What am I supposed to do here?" I told him "Jazz is about the now, man, for @#$%s sake don't stop; don't EVER stop. Just listen to the rhythm section and get back in when you can."
After an hour (and a break to keep my temper in check), I asked him to do some checkup exercises (la-la-lo-lo-le-le...) and sing Mary Had A Little Lamb in a variety of keys, styles, and tempos. His technique was a joke. In retrospect, I should not have done this. I should not have recorded it. I probably should not have deleted the recording either; could have used it for the OMGCHECKTHISBEFOREOUTLOL part of a before-and-after.
This guy sucked the suckity-suck in both practices and generally as a vocalist. I'm really worried now, but he promises to learn his parts by Thursday (next rehearsal, try-out for trumpet and keys). I sure hope he does it; his fringe benefits (free rehearsal space, PA, and recording, plus regular gigs later this summer) are @#$%ing awesome, but if he keeps sucking wind like he did this weekend it won't be worth the trouble.
His original ad was also full of lies. If I was auditioning him, I would have passed.
Why would you claim to be a Baritone with a 3 octave range when the bottom of that range is well within Tenor territory and your real range is a little less than 2 octaves? Does he just not know? Does he think nobody will find out?
Why would you claim to be a Baritone with a 3 octave range when the bottom of that range is well within Tenor territory and your real range is a little less than 2 octaves? Does he just not know? Does he think nobody will find out?
I would not trust someone in a band to pay me bi-weekly. I get paid at the end of the gig, end of story.
Yeah for me personally I wouldn't be comfortable with that. It could be a regional thing though. Working that way in Louisville would be very unusual.
It depends. Most jazz groups I play with are not set up as a business and the musicians just report the income themselves. I do play with one guy who pays me nightly and then sends a W2 at the end of the year though. I understand why you'd want to do it that way but it's probably not something I'd be comfortable with, especially with a new group.
This "vocalist" is supposed to be the "bandleader"? It sounds more like you are the bandleader and he's the "vocalist", and a pretty bad one at that. I would cut this guy loose. You may not have years to train him and make him into the crooner that you need. It sounds like you had a pretty frustrating session, more like a jazz vocal lesson. If he's not even willing to listen to the tunes, get familiar, and practice on his own, you will be dragging him along, musically speaking, and it will ruin your fun. Forgive me if I'm harsh but it sounds like this is not the "vocalist" you are looking for and it's time to move along. I wish you luck.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
That sucks man! But singer's can be the hardest group to find a good one, especially jazz singing where intonation and phrasing are so important. I'm sorry, but if he can't do All of Me you have issues. Might be time to move on from this one...
That was my sense too - except - that's the guy connected to the venue that wants a 'house band.' And the really cool practice space.
But to not only not know what to sing - or how ensemble music works?
I agree this may be a situation where the costs outweigh the benefits.
I'm not big on vocals at all, much less male vocalists; much rather have a solid instrumental set than weak vocals.
Nothing will make me change the station on my car radio from the jazz station I love than lame vocals, which unfortunately the standard morning drive droid loves...
The guy's -not- a musician, he's a wanna-be, and he's hoping he can buy into a situation he can't earn with the perks.
Go watch 'School Of Rock' again and see how Jack Black handles the issue of telling the no-talent kid that he can still be In The Band even if he's not a performer.
You need a Sound Guy, stage manager, logistics/roadie. Let him "EmCee" your sets and promote the band. But face it, singing is right out.
Yeah, you'd be 'using' him to get what you want. Just like he's using you to be In The Band.
But if he's already got Lead Singers' Disease, he might get his feelings hurt. Something tells me it wouldn't be the first time...
The guy can think of himself as a Martian for all I care, but musicianship and leadership aren't the same thing. Sometimes, you get lucky and can find someone who's both, but not always. This guy is more of a front-man than a leader. That's OK though; IME jazz projects don't always need someone to really play a strong leadership role as long as there are gigs coming (he can easily get, where I would have trouble) there are good personnel, and the set(s) are good.
I'm a leader-type, and a fair musician, but I have a day job and I would prefer for this project stay contained, especially if someone else is "the BL". A couple hours a week doing some charts or transcriptions are about all I can spare outside of rehearsals and gigs until we get something going. This guy is plugged in, has no job, and is providing top-level gear and space for no $. This saves us maybe $3k/yr, which is not insubstantial. He's also fairly charismatic. IMO, this makes him a better choice for the shmoozing portion of band-leadering (which I hate) and gives him some time to do whateveritis that those guys do to find places to play.
I can coach him a little if needed and I'm married to a Country singer who has these particular songs in the library already. She can help too. If he nails it on Thursday, then I'll really know he's serious. If not, I'm gonna have to go back to the drawing board, 'cause two weeks (including a one-on-one coaching session) is more than enough time for a vocalist to nail 10 standards.
Hopefully, I'll find out in a couple of days. Otherwise, look forward to the "Singer ruined my band concept" post next week.
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Yeah, I know that the costs are high. I think that the guy will find out pretty quickly that if he wants to put his name on something as a front-man, it needs to be outstanding, or he'll suffer for it. I'm going to suggest that we record the session. I really am hoping Thursday proves me wrong about this guy.
I agree, although a skilled vocalist really brings the jazz to the audience (of not-jazz people, eg Harry Connick, Michael Buble, Diana Krall, Norah Jones). My preference in this situation would be just to sit in the pocket and groove instrumentally with the other (talented) musicians, but the singer is supposedly running the show...
Might use the old standby: "You know how 50's big-band leaders always counted the tune off, then conducted or flirted with girls or whatever, until their feature song came up and they picked up a horn? You would be GREAT at running a band like that! You have charisma for days."
Hi,
I guess that was what I was eluding to. I've been in too many bands where the lead singer/front man was there not because of talent, but because he owned the PA.
Yes, there is a difference between a "front man" and a "band leader". Sometimes they are the some person, sometimes not.
If you're going to stick with this guy because of everything else he brings to the table, my hat's off to you. You will need lots of time and patience to turn this guy into a jazz crooner. You are a saint for being so generous. I hope you can keep your enthusiasm for the project. I do wish you all the best. I'd like to hear how it all turns out. Please tell us how the horn section auditions go.
Yes, I'd still like to play horn in your band. But you probably don't have room for a tuba. On the plus side, I can sing "All Of Me"!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
I guess that was what I was eluding to. I've been in too many bands where the lead singer/front man was there not because of talent, but because he owned the PA.
Yes, there is a difference between a "front man" and a "band leader". Sometimes they are the some person, sometimes not.
If you're going to stick with this guy because of everything else he brings to the table, my hat's off to you. You will need lots of time and patience to turn this guy into a jazz crooner. You are a saint for being so generous. I hope you can keep your enthusiasm for the project. I do wish you all the best. I'd like to hear how it all turns out. Please tell us how the horn section auditions go.
Yes, I'd still like to play horn in your band. But you probably don't have room for a tuba. On the plus side, I can sing "All Of Me"!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Alternatively, you can buy iReal B for iPad or Android and play the standards you like to play and tempo and improv over them... not as flexible as a drum machine but MUCH cheaper.
Jazz is not that hard. Wish we lived in the same area, I might be able to help you out playing guitar, as your project sounds like a lot of fun. Nothing fancy, but solo from Miles' "So What" last summer...
Well, I'm off to prep for this rehearsal. We're trying out keys (and possibly a couple horn players). The keys player is a friend with a high degree of talent, so I'm confident that we'll be in business for the most part. That makes the arrangement Drums-Bass-Keys-Vox-Fiddle-Trumpet right now. With a couple more horn players and hopefully a section leader type, we'll be ready to roll.
Opening set list is crooner-style, 10 tunes, 45-50 minutes depending on solos. Singer has all but two nailed (according to him) and we'll work up the other two before the session.
All of Me
At Last
Sway
Georgia on my Mind
Summertime
Fly me to the Moon
Fever
I've got you under my skin
Girl from Ipanema
My Funny Valentine
Opening set list is crooner-style, 10 tunes, 45-50 minutes depending on solos. Singer has all but two nailed (according to him) and we'll work up the other two before the session.
All of Me
At Last
Sway
Georgia on my Mind
Summertime
Fly me to the Moon
Fever
I've got you under my skin
Girl from Ipanema
My Funny Valentine
