+1 ... This is the same advice my bass teacher gave me. The one finger per fret is a good guide and necessary when working through scales, but may not be totally practical when actually playing.
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Fingering 1 -2 - 4 or Finger Per Fret?
- Thread starter Paul4703
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+1 ... This is the same advice my bass teacher gave me. The one finger per fret is a good guide and necessary when working through scales, but may not be totally practical when actually playing.
+1 for both. usually 124 near the nut, 1234 further up, but I switch back and forth all the time.
neither is "correct" and both are "good technique", if properly executed.
In the end, what ever works ergonomically to make the music is what matters. Nobody ever landed a gig based on their economy of motion.
neither is "correct" and both are "good technique", if properly executed.
In the end, what ever works ergonomically to make the music is what matters. Nobody ever landed a gig based on their economy of motion.
1234 all the way up the neck.. =S i do have beastly hands i dunno i can do a 1-2 octave down to near the nut - but i think 1234 is a good habit because you can go from one to t'other
I use pretty much the same fingering on electric and upright. 124 in lower positions, 1234 in the higher registers. There's more shifting, but shifting exercises are IMHO a major part of learning 124 technique.
This emanated from teaching myself 1234 as a kid, then taking lessons later on. My teacher knew that I was planning on learning upright, so he figured he would give me a head start by teaching me an upright fingering method on electric.
Truth be told, the technique I had taught myself wasn't worth hanging onto.
This emanated from teaching myself 1234 as a kid, then taking lessons later on. My teacher knew that I was planning on learning upright, so he figured he would give me a head start by teaching me an upright fingering method on electric.
Truth be told, the technique I had taught myself wasn't worth hanging onto.
Since I'm somewhat classically trained, I generally use 1-2-4, unless I need the finger-per-fret for a riff.
I've got the finger span to do finger-per-fret by the nut, but on a fretless, the 1-2-4 fingering is better for intonation.
I've got the finger span to do finger-per-fret by the nut, but on a fretless, the 1-2-4 fingering is better for intonation.
These are my thoughts on 1234. It fails in the lower positions because in order to keep the wrist straight enough to be safe, it produces absurdly awkward finger angles. This is, of course, not considering thumb pivots, which can be both safe and ergodynamic.
Plenty of people have lost gigs because of RSI, and that's what good technique should be about - the prevention of injury. 1234 can lead to dangerous wrist angles, which promote the development of RSI's.
...covering a lot of ground in one position doesn't mean anything. Switching positions is an integral part of technical development on the instrumnet, and if you try and get around that just by stretching, you're missing out on a lot. But that's a debate for another thread.
Objectively, I have yet to see anybody, save for pivoting (which I can see as a valid method of implementing OFPF), show me a way to play in the lower positions OFPF without bending the wrist to an absurd angle. Any doctor will tell you that much stress on the wrist at that kind of angle for any prolonged length of time will increase the risk of injury. The bent wrist is what is wrong with it. Other considerations simply come from body awareness and common sense (why use muscles that you don't need to by stretching? why fatigue the hand when it isn't necessary? etc.). OFPF diehards will dismiss that, but can't dismiss the first one. Show me your own demonstration of the safety of OFPF and I might be swayed in my opinion.
I had this same exact question today, answered it myself, so I'll try and help.
It started with me receive Bass Method By Hal Leonard today from amazon (btw great great book to learn theroy) and that is what they start you out on. (i've been playing bass for a while so i kind of overlooked it.) Not until page god knows when, after you can play the first and second position, and know all the notes in it including sharps and flats, do they introduce the idea of finger per fret.
I came up with a solution that makes sense to me. People usually tell starts to do this because there hands can't stretch far enough to comfortable reach the fourth fret with their pinky OR their ring finger and pinky are not strong enough to do it and because for beginners that could lead to injury either fairly quick or later down the road. Thats why they take so long to introduce because by this time (at least in their book) you can actually sort of play bass so they think the only way for you to keep continuing is to have one more finger in their because the bass lanes get pretty complex fairly fast after that.
I think thats why people use that.
It started with me receive Bass Method By Hal Leonard today from amazon (btw great great book to learn theroy) and that is what they start you out on. (i've been playing bass for a while so i kind of overlooked it.) Not until page god knows when, after you can play the first and second position, and know all the notes in it including sharps and flats, do they introduce the idea of finger per fret.
I came up with a solution that makes sense to me. People usually tell starts to do this because there hands can't stretch far enough to comfortable reach the fourth fret with their pinky OR their ring finger and pinky are not strong enough to do it and because for beginners that could lead to injury either fairly quick or later down the road. Thats why they take so long to introduce because by this time (at least in their book) you can actually sort of play bass so they think the only way for you to keep continuing is to have one more finger in their because the bass lanes get pretty complex fairly fast after that.
I think thats why people use that.
One finger per fret is what I've always done. In the beginning it might be a stretch for you--so what--that develops finger strength and flexibility. In the beginning you'll probably find that you have to play slower to play one per fret. That's not a bad thing either. New students should be playing slowly anyway. I don't think it's wise to learn a method that builds a crutch into your playing from the beginning. Later, it will be hard to break the habit and you'll find it may slow you down.
just my opinion.
just my opinion.
You don't think any of that might be steering a NEW player in the wrong direction?
You're kind of encouraing him to re-invent the wheel however he sees fit. Well what if thinks the wheel might be better as a triangle or a square instead of a circle and he doesn't find out until LATER that his "outside the box" idea doesn't work?
There's a reason that tried and true teaching methods exist. Some methods are better than others. Musicians have pretty free, independent spirits. We're artists. I get it. It'd be nice if it was all a free-for-all but that's really not the best way to approach it.
Telling a new player to think outside the box and do whatever is easiest doesn't sound like the best advice to me.
It's easiest to not even get a teacher! (including books and DVDs). It would certainly save money!
Sure, he can do whatever is easiest for him--BUT--he'll be basing that decision on what's easiest for him NOW and not what will end up making things easiest for him in the future. He doesn't know what the best way is yet--I don't think it's fair to think a new student should be told to just figure out what he thinks works for him. He doesn't know what will work for him yet. That's just setting him up for failure later on.
I respectfully disagree with everything. Nobody's saying you shouldn't learn how to shift positions smoothly. Of course you should. But what's wrong with covering a lot of ground in one position?
As for the wrist, all I can tell you is I'm prone to repetitive motion pains, and I never got any pain from doing OFPF or a 5-fret stretch after 30 years of doing it. If it feels awkward on your hand, all you have to do is raise your neck a little and the angle gets easier.
Jimmy, you need to clone your wrist/shoulder and sell it. I envy your genetics.
I grew up as a four-finger-per-fret fanatic [with the proper ergonomic angles], but it didn't work out for me. Perhaps it was the other intense physical training I was doing and/or my diet and stress levels, but not unlike Farrah Fawcett, I ended up screwed in the end. .......sorry.
I have to use a more upright technique now, and while I can't do what I used to do, I'll get by with less pain now.
What a drag it is getting old.
I grew up as a four-finger-per-fret fanatic [with the proper ergonomic angles], but it didn't work out for me. Perhaps it was the other intense physical training I was doing and/or my diet and stress levels, but not unlike Farrah Fawcett, I ended up screwed in the end. .......sorry.
I have to use a more upright technique now, and while I can't do what I used to do, I'll get by with less pain now.
What a drag it is getting old.
My only bass teacher taught me the "one finger per fret" method on the entire bass. So that is what I do. I have smallish hands so this does provide a nice stretch at the 'low' end of the neck.
I vote for doing what ever seems right to you. How ever you play best or it feels the best - only you can know that
Dave
I vote for doing what ever seems right to you. How ever you play best or it feels the best - only you can know that
Dave
Well don't feel too bad, I've got my aging parts too, bro. For me it's my shoulder. Have to use a modded P Lyte these days. I miss the heavy stuff, but the Lyte sounds like most any PJ to me since putting overwound pickups on it.
Sorry to hear about it. First I've heard of anyone having problems with it, but I guess I can see the potential for it.
I gots one dem basses with the peg on the bottom that rests on the floor. No more shoulder pain.
I see the point you are trying to make - you want a simple rule for beginners to follow so it takes one less thing off their plate to worry about. I am all about teaching beginners to do things properly, though, and I don't consider OFPF to be "proper". Much more emphasis should be placed on proper wrist and finger angles.
I started with OFPF myself. However, I believe it did alot of bad things for me. For one, If I had to cross strings on the same fret, I always lifted up my finger and set it down on the next string, or barred it. Nowadays, I have way better tonal control now by putting two fingers on different strings on the same fret. On songs which had alot of moving around within 3 frets (Cake's "I will survive" comes to mind), this really fatigued my hand and that also affected my tone.
So if you need a cut and dry rule, it is: 1-2-4 at the nut, 1-2-3-4 at the bridge, unless you are doing a chromatic run at the nut, or you need to jump strings but stay on the same fret, or fret a chord that stretches across 5 frets. Sorry it isn't simple, but that's close to what I define as proper.
I don't really see what wrist angle has to do with it. I can't tell any difference in wrist angle in the lower positions between playing 1-2-4 and playing 1-2-3-4. I already have kind of a tough angle because I play a 6, because there's no way to get up and over the FB to play on the low strings without a noticeable wrist angle.
For me, the main reason 1-2-4 can sometimes be uncomfortable in the lowest positions has nothing to do with wrist angle and everything to do with the fact that I, like most players I know, have less of a stretch between 2 and 3, with the left hand in playing position, than I do either between 1 and 2 or between 3 and 4.
Actually, covering a lot of ground in one position does mean a lot. So does being able to switch positions. Those two things are not in competition, they're complementary. If you can do both, IMO you're in a better position than if you can do only one.
As for the value of practicing stretching, I would liken it to the kind of workouts an athlete does. It's all about preparing yourself to function well in as many as possible of the actions your activity might demand. Sure, you have to be smart about it and not hurt yourself. But you do push yourself physically by practicing things that are difficult in order to prepare you to do them when it matters. There is of course no point in practicing a difficult task that you'd never ever use. But there is a point in practicing things you might use occasionally. For me, this kind of stretching is obviously one of those. Maybe I have a slightly different perspective, having come from classical guitar eons ago....
I should say, though, that that's not the fault of OFPF. What you describe would not be considered a correct way of applying OFPF. It's never meant that if you had your index finger on the 1st fret, any notes on the 3rd fret on any string had to be played with the 3. That would be a considerable misunderstanding. Watch a good classical guitarist sometime. Or even a bad one.
