Fingering on a fretless

[MVE]

A properly intonated lined fretless, the notes are right over the lines.

That being said, if you want, you can adjust the saddles and put it wherever you want.

According to one of Scott Devine’s videos, he says that Gary Willis got accustomed to playing behind and sets up his instruments that way because he’s used to it.

Like Steve said, the important thing is that your string to string is the same, like so its not behind the line on one string and in front of it on another.

 

[40Hz]

I studied bass guitar for a year with Ed Carter, who played bass 27 years for the Beach Boys. Google him.

No need. I date back to that era so already knew the name. He was one of several bass players who worked with the Beach Boys, mainly as part of their touring band although he did play bass on some recordings as well. Didn’t he replace Ron Brown if memory serves?

So anyway, should I just assume you spent that time also studying fretless technique while you were with him? Because your question in your first post led me to think you were completely new to fretless.

 

[Koog]

Check the intonation, adjust if needed, and then trust your ears.

 

[Pilgrim]

My comment is that if you're playing fretless, you need to learn to depend on your ears, not where fret lines should be. Because you can't stare at the fretboard all the time.

I started on upright, and that rule applies there. To me, it's simply the same on fretless.

 

[dpbass66]

I don't quite understand because a fretted instrument you normally try to put your finger right on the fret.

On a fretless instrument there are a bunch of nuances though.

Like what temperament do you chose to use. If you use even intonation like a fretted instrument everything will sound slightly out of tune. If you use just intonation, everything will sound better by yourself but sound slightly off when playing with a band using keys or a fretted instrument.

Also, one of the reasons many people don't like fret line markers on fretless instruments is you eventually ignore them and just play the correct notes which may or may not be at the fret marker.

You could also be inadvertently bending the strings.

Lastly, as with any stringed instrument, the higher your action, the more sharp notes will sound when fingering at a given position.

On a fretted instrument the correct finger placement is right behind the fret.

 

[gstaats]

Tuners are helpful, but they easily become a crutch to lean on. Trusting one's ear is most helpful. I play unlined as I feel the lines are not very useful - I don't wanna stare at the fingerboard all day, and, when reading music, they do no good at all. Setup is pretty important as mentioned earlier - stinks having string to string differences in intonation on a fretless. One thing worth mentioning that I haven't read in this thread is playing with the lights out to music that is familiar. Really pushes the muscle memory and ear training. Side dots are really nice for reference points. As mentioned earlier, one's finger build/geometry and fingering hand technique will greatly influence where one feels they actually put their finger to get proper intonation. One other thing worth noting is scale length. If most playing has been done on particular scale on fretted basses with good left hand technique, the muscle memory transfers well to a fretless bass of the same scale. All of my basses are 34" scale. (no complaints about the "b" string w/ TI jazz flats on a 34" scale bass).

 

[Lenny JG]

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm going to go with what my upright instructor showed me. He's also a far better bass guitar player than I am.


There are more harmonics on the string than just at "12".

Each open string has harmonics at these easy to find intervals:

- Major 3rd (4th "fret")
- Perfect 4th (5th "fret")
- Perfect 5th (7th "fret")
- Major 6th (9th "fret")
- Octave (12th "fret")

It's not about what harmonic note you're playing, it's about finding where there is a clean bell-like harmonic. Out of the 8 different in the major scale formed by each string, if you use the open string and the location of the harmonics, that gets you to six of the tones.

The major 2nd is an easy find - simply play and open string, and then play the fifth on the next higher string - you'll hear it when you nail it.

Now, that pesky 7th is harder to find, but if you'll accept the flat 7th (minor 7th interval), then you can use your open D and G strings to help you locate it on the E and A.

Yeah I know there's more harmonics, but 12 is the only one that rings true to pitch regardless of intonation, directly over the fret.

There's is literally 5 harmonics in between just the 3rd and 5th fret. That's why your statement is inaccurate. You can get a harmonic directly over the line, as well before and after it, on various spots, meaning that deciding where your finger gets placed based off a harmonic ringing doesn't make sense unless it's the 12th.

I use harmonics probably more than 75% of players and understand them extremely well but thank you.

 

[jdthaddeus]

I often practice through a tuner so I can see if I'm hitting notes perfectly. Perhaps try that, and see if your ear is correct.

 

[DJ Bebop]

On a fretted instrument the correct finger placement is right behind the fret.

Fingering on a fretless

 

[2F/2F]

Just got my first fretless bass - an Ibanez Portamento 5-string - and I have a question about finger placement. Everything I find says to place your finger directly at the marker where the fret would be, but this bass sounds in tune when i place my finger just slightly behind the marks, kinda like a fretted bass. Is it just my ear, or do some fretless basses sound better fingering like a fretted?

Yes, you are "supposed to" finger a little bit behind the dots (and/or lines) on a fretless bass.

The dots on the side of a fretless electric bass neck are not placed for good fretless intonation. They are simply placed where frets would go...on a fretted bass. They don't work for good intonation on fretless...unless your fingertips are shaped like triangles. But they aren't. They're imperfect ovals, with a flat side, therefore the string does not ring all the way to the middle of your finger, but from the edge of your finger. Bottom line: You finger right on the dots, you are sharp.

The point where the string starts ringing, i.e. the edge of your finger, is what is supposed to be on position – not the center of your finger.

Using a tuner to find proper position is pointless, aside from calibrating your octave position. It will become second nature to squeeze, ease up on, and perhaps roll, slide, or shimmy your fingers a bit during a song, to tune your notes to be harmonious within the composition that you are playing at any given moment.

The goal isn't to be perfectly in tune, but to be harmonious with the other instruments – because perfect tune in the technical sense rarely sounds "correct" to the ear. If you play fretless, this tuning happens near instantaneously (as long as you can hear yourself well enough for your unconscious brain to take over for you).

 

[2F/2F]

I disagree. If you place your finger right on the fret you will be dampening the note to some extent. IMO proper technique requires the finger to be placed immediately behind the fret so that the string can ring unimpeded from the fret to the bridge.

It's only "proper technique" if you think that full sustain and full overtones are proper, for every application, always. However, they rarely are, IMO and IME.

Firstly, the damping effect is slight. It's audible, and important...but not major. You aren't turning a "ring" into a "thud" by doing it. You're just creating a more controlled, cleaner sounding ring.

Secondly, you speak of that damping as if it's a bad thing across the board. It isn't. It makes you sound better in many applications – most, IMO. It's just that most people have never learned to use this technique, and use only right hand damping.

So, what you describe is not simply "proper technique." It's "a technique." It's a technique that you use if you want zero damping whatsoever. That's something to be used as called for, but it's not a character of note that I want to employ as the default whenever I play. Quite the opposite; it's a rare exception when I want that.

To my feeling of what a "standard bass note" sounds like, full sustain and full overtones are dialed back, as the baseline. I.e. there is a mild degree of damping as your "home base," and you can either damp more or damp less, as called for. But the baseline is the ever so slightly slightly damped character that you get with finger on fret. This creates an effect that is very "normal" for an instrument that is playing a rhythm role in an arrangement. It is preferable to dial back the full sustain and full overtones, in a great majority of applications.

I play on the frets, and deliberately control my left hand pressure, and position to some degree, constantly, in order to control the level of built in damping, especially on my basses that don't have bridge mutes. I even do this on open strings whenever possible, playing in 0 position, fingering at the nut to provide that slight damping. If I am playing open strings along with notes higher on the neck, and can't make it down to the nut to do this, then I drag my thumb a bit to help accomplish a similar effect. If I want full sustain and overtones, I fret as you describe...but in 30+ years of playing bass, very few gigs and compositions have called for that "totally wide open" sound.

 

[Aidenn7]

Ok there's 3 positions for each line.. Depending on your intonation will determine what sounds good.. Ghost notes.. Slides.. And vibratoing between the three spots is an amazing tone.. Mwah.. What I mean by three spots.. Infront of the line. on the line. Behind the line.. A little movement will you fretless sing.. On some board you press lighter.. Some harder.. I've sent sky high strings with a light touch.. And low strings with heavy hand.. But the common technique is constant movement to muting

 

[2F/2F]

I've never played one with fret lines. I just push my finger down where it sounds in tune. If you can't hear that it is in tune or out of tune, then you are probably not ready for a fretless. Imagine what a trombone player must go through!

View attachment 4637062

My first three instruments were fretless electric bass, upright bass, and trombone.

 

[Watchootognbout]

My link was Jaco playing a fretted bass with his fingers directly on the frets, as indicated by my exception to the rule comment. He said you get the best sound that way, clear.

I tend to think it was more likely to keep his fretless fingering technique in practice.

 

[themickster]

Just got my first fretless bass - an Ibanez Portamento 5-string - and I have a question about finger placement. Everything I find says to place your finger directly at the marker where the fret would be, but this bass sounds in tune when i place my finger just slightly behind the marks, kinda like a fretted bass. Is it just my ear, or do some fretless basses sound better fingering like a fretted?

I found the same when I played a fretless. Go by what you hear.

 

[Slevage]

You have to accommodate for “finger squish”.
The pitch is created where the squish ends- it’s different for everyone.

Welcome to the world of fretless.
Similar things happen when learning to play brass and woodwinds.

 

[Ekulati]

I don't quite understand because a fretted instrument you normally try to put your finger right on the fret.

James I think you mean you put your finger in the "space" between, just BEHIND the fret, not directly ON the fret, which of course is a metal bar.

Edit: now seeing all the other posts about finger DIRECTLY ON TOP OF THE FRET, I'm prompted to be less diplomatic: that technique is simply crazy.

 

[Bill Murray]

With Fretless it is very important to utilize your ears and forget about your eyes. There are many variables with fretless instruments one of them being that no two are exactly alike. The frets are not going to be exactly where you might expect them to be, if it sounds in tune, then that is the correct place to be despite what your eyes are telling you. Start with one neck position and practice not looking at your hands while you’re playing.

Start slow. Practice long tones (whole notes and greater) with a tuner and with drone notes (easy to find on YouTube,, just look up C cello drone for example). Octaves are a great place to start, especially notes utilizing the open string. Don’t get bummed out if your not in tune, just adjust your finger until your in tune. That’s the key with fretless, we’re all out of tune sometimes but we can adjust so quickly you don’t notice.

Any time your playing constantly check your intonation where you can using octaves, harmonics, and open strings.

Good Luck!

 

[Thebiggestjerk]

Compare the intonation at the open and at the 12th fret for each string. If at the 12th it’s ringing sharp behind the market, the saddle screw needs to be turned clockwise to lengthen the string.then retune and check again. On all my fretted instruments I’m happy with <+/- 5 cents. On fretless I like it as close to zero as I can get it, without making better become the enemy of the good.

 

[nnnnnn]

There's is literally 5 harmonics in between just the 3rd and 5th fret. That's why your statement is inaccurate. You can get a harmonic directly over the line, as well before and after it, on various spots, meaning that deciding where your finger gets placed based off a harmonic ringing doesn't make sense unless it's the 12th.

I don't think the previous poster meant that you should play a harmonic at position X and then finger a normal note at that same point on the same string, I think they meant that you can use various harmonics at various locations as reference pitches for comparison purposes.

You can get harmonics in lots of places, but the ones that are very easy to get consistently are the ones at frets 12, 7, 5, and 4. If you're actually aiming for one of those you're not likely to get one of the in between ones by mistake.