Aural. You hear the note and move up or down as needed so that it sounds right.
End reality: Aural is all that matters to listeners. Aural is really the #1. Muscle and Visual are #2 and #3 that help us get #1 Aural right.
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Fingering on a fretless
- Thread starter richardbruce
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- fretless 5 string
Aural. You hear the note and move up or down as needed so that it sounds right.
End reality: Aural is all that matters to listeners. Aural is really the #1. Muscle and Visual are #2 and #3 that help us get #1 Aural right.
On a fretted bass one presses the string down between the frets, and the string "breaks" over the fret. This does not ensure proper pitch - that depends on string intonation (the location of the break down on the bridge end) and proper tuning.
On a fretless bass, the instrument is set up so that one "stops" the string at the location where the string would break over a fret, if there was a fret. That notion is hypothetical, and academic; in reality if the pitch is correct then the idea of the location of an imaginary fret is extra-irrelevant. With a fretless, the string also breaks over the bridge saddle and that location must be intonated properly as with a fretted instrument, and the instrument properly tuned.
Does your instrument have dots on the side of the fingerboard? If so, that would be the location of where you stop the string. Is the instrument intonated and in tune?
On a fretless bass, the instrument is set up so that one "stops" the string at the location where the string would break over a fret, if there was a fret. That notion is hypothetical, and academic; in reality if the pitch is correct then the idea of the location of an imaginary fret is extra-irrelevant. With a fretless, the string also breaks over the bridge saddle and that location must be intonated properly as with a fretted instrument, and the instrument properly tuned.
Does your instrument have dots on the side of the fingerboard? If so, that would be the location of where you stop the string. Is the instrument intonated and in tune?
I’d strongly suggest finding a competent bass instructor who is also qualified to teach proper electric bass fretless technique and take at least a few lessons. That way you can get started out right and avoid developing bad habits early on that will be difficult to get rid of later.
Lessons will save you a great deal of time you might waste getting distracted by bad advice and information. Because there’s a lot of it out there.
And while working things out on your own has merit, it’s also the longer way to master something when competent instructors are available to help you avoid wasting the time you’d otherwise spend reinventing the wheel.
Smart people don’t reinvent anything if they can buy or steal an already existing set of plans.
tl:dr - If you’re genuinely serious about playing fretless bass, skip the forum discussions and find yourself an actual instructor.
Luck!
Lessons will save you a great deal of time you might waste getting distracted by bad advice and information. Because there’s a lot of it out there.
And while working things out on your own has merit, it’s also the longer way to master something when competent instructors are available to help you avoid wasting the time you’d otherwise spend reinventing the wheel.
Smart people don’t reinvent anything if they can buy or steal an already existing set of plans.
tl:dr - If you’re genuinely serious about playing fretless bass, skip the forum discussions and find yourself an actual instructor.
Luck!
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Turnaround
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Many moons ago I was playing in a cover band and one of our songs was 'War Pigs' by Black Sabbath. I was playing a KB 35.25" scale lefty six string fretless for the whole gig (I really miss that bass). For some reason the guitar player wanted to play a new Flying V guitar for that particular song so he spent a half minute changing guitars. The drummer counts the song off (and if you are familiar with the song it starts with a heavy blast on E) and right away I hear the Flying V is very flat. The guitar player immediately has this look of surprise and utter fear in his eyes, but even before the third beat I just slide down a tiny bit until everything is 'in tune'. I don't mean to sound bragadocious, but it was smoooooth! Luckily I was playing the E on the low B string for the fatter sound so that I could do the tiny glissando, otherwise it might have sounded less smooth than it was. With a song that starts like that it would be a real drag to have to stop so the guitar player could tune up. So for the rest of the song I played sort of 'in between the frets' as it were. I don't think the drummer noticed, but then again he's a drummer. I think the singer probably found it a tiny bit easier to sing lower than normal. Naturally if there were a keyboard player or other instrumentalist then we would have had to stop and tune up.
So playing fretless sort of saved the moment. And the main point being that even if others are out of tune use your ears to get thru the song and tune up afterwards.
So playing fretless sort of saved the moment. And the main point being that even if others are out of tune use your ears to get thru the song and tune up afterwards.
Limited fretless experience here, but I was playing(not all over the board) without looking at the fingerboard pretty quickly, decent intonation too. Side markers in the right place can help
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm going to go with what my upright instructor showed me. He's also a far better bass guitar player than I am.
There are more harmonics on the string than just at "12".
Each open string has harmonics at these easy to find intervals:
- Major 3rd (4th "fret")
- Perfect 4th (5th "fret")
- Perfect 5th (7th "fret")
- Major 6th (9th "fret")
- Octave (12th "fret")
It's not about what harmonic note you're playing, it's about finding where there is a clean bell-like harmonic. Out of the 8 different in the major scale formed by each string, if you use the open string and the location of the harmonics, that gets you to six of the tones.
The major 2nd is an easy find - simply play and open string, and then play the fifth on the next higher string - you'll hear it when you nail it.
Now, that pesky 7th is harder to find, but if you'll accept the flat 7th (minor 7th interval), then you can use your open D and G strings to help you locate it on the E and A.
My link was Jaco playing a fretted bass with his fingers directly on the frets, as indicated by my exception to the rule comment. He said you get the best sound that way, clear.
You're making my point for me. You hit a note. It is out. Ears quickly tell you and you can correct for the next note(s). That is ears correcting a bad note, not ears making you hit the right note in the first place.
So playing in tune is really muscle & visual first with ears providing feedback for adjustment along the way to correct / maintain pitch. Therefore, having lines provides more visual queues to help us get the right note from the start. It is especially helpful if your form is not dialed in.
Edit: My personal fretless playing improved much once I learned that form is a more reliable method than ears. I obviously use both but I am focusing on the form & muscle memory so that I can play intervals in-tune on my blank board. My ears and the always on tuner are tools for keeping the train on the tracks.
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I’d strongly suggest finding a competent bass instructor who is also qualified to teach proper electric bass fretless technique and take at least a few lessons. That way you can get started out right and avoid developing bad habits early on that will be difficult to get rid of later.
Lessons will save you a great deal of time you might waste getting distracted by bad advice and information. Because there’s a lot of it out there.
And while working things out on your own has merit, it’s also the longer way to master something when competent instructors are available to help you avoid wasting the time you’d otherwise spend reinventing the wheel.
Smart people don’t reinvent anything if they can buy or steal an already existing set of plans.
tl:dr - If you’re genuinely serious about playing fretless bass, skip the forum discussions and find yourself an actual instructor.
Luck!
I studied bass guitar for a year with Ed Carter, who played bass 27 years for the Beach Boys. Google him.
Portamentos do not come with fret markers, or at least did not in the many years I was looking at them or on the one I purchased (6 string). Did you get yours used? If so, the markers might have been put there by the previous owner. In which case, the placement is whatever suited the person who owned the bass when the markers were installed.
This is really the answer. Setup will determine where you place your finger and listening to your intonation. Those two things are really the only things that matter as you tackle this. my upright teacher gave me a super good piece of advice for nailing the notes on upright: close your eyes and let your ears determine the correct notes and then play them over and over so your muscle memory kicks in and you can feel where the correct notes are after a while. Very true.
On a side note, my EUB came with side dots that really threw me off. The angle you are looking down or across the neck is hard to determine what the correct intonation is. I took a sharpie and blacked them out. Now my muscle memory takes me where I need to go. My avatar has my Ken Smith 6 string lined fretless. A real challenge in the beginning. Now I rarely look at the lines.
No, new. And they're on the top side of the fretboard. As far as I know, all Portamento bass guitars are the same that way.
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My precise reaction also. I have never heard of someone playing a fretted neck literally touching the string to the top of the crown of the fret itself to play a note.
I believe that OFPF means one finger per fret and 124 means using the index finger (1), medius (2) and pinky (4). The ring finger (3) is just for show, I guess.
Just for the record about playing a fretted bass on the fret. Jaco was a good bassist and all, but wasn't he the guy that took a tort guard OFF of a Jazz Bass? So much for being a genius. So there.
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My link was Jaco playing a fretted bass with his fingers directly on the frets, as indicated by my exception to the rule comment. He said you get the best sound that way, clear.
Ah. Yeah he's the exception. I reckon he got away with it.
Fair enough, but when I was playing fretless in somewhat elevated volume situations or with less than perfectly tuned guitars, I also needed to see where I knew the pitch would be good. Just couldn't always fully hear the correct pitch. That's just me though and how I did it. Sort of like upright, learning positions and reference points. Played some upright too. Now just fretted. I also did what Jaco said, practice playing pretty much on the frets of a fretted and play those spots on fretless.
Well, that’s totally different. On an unlined fretless almost all have the dots where your fingers should be placed for those “frets”. Lined necks almost always have the dots in the middle of the fret just like the dot markers on fretted fingerboards are. A filled in fretted to fretless conversion like Jaco had will likely not move the dots and is a hybrid.
I learned on an unlined fretless and relied on those dots to get me close to where I needed to be quickly. I picked up a lined fretless recently for a good price and those dots being in the wrong place for me was just too hard to get used to, so I sold it. Players who learn on lined fretboards would feel the same way, so if they had an unlined neck, they’d be consistently sharp if they fell into old habits thinking the dots were behind where their fingers should go.
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