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Fingering on a fretless
- Thread starter richardbruce
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- fretless 5 string
That seems to be a recurring trend among the comments. I like to think I have a good ear. So not only listening to myself, but to anyone else I might be making music with is important. Thanks for reminding me!
I agree. No matter the fretted instrument, one should place their finger as close BEHIND the fret as possible - never on top. Agreed.
I agree with everything right up to "using a tuner is pointless". I agree with those who suggested using one, at least while learning. A chromatic tuner, that is. And I'm going to take those suggestions. But thanks for your comments.
No, Ed played a fretted bass and so did I at the time - a very workmanlike Ernie Ball MM S.U.B. Sterling. Which unfortunately, they no longer make in San Luis Obispo. And since Ed and I would occasionally break out in a Beach Boys song (I love them!) he would have a six string electric close at hand. Quite a talented fellow. He was in England jamming with Hendrix when he got the call from his childhood friend Al Jardine to play bass for the Boys as part of their touring company. Ed was actually invited to play guitar for the band previously, but opted for England instead, as that was the happening music scene at the time. He tours with a bunch of ex-Boys sidemen now called "California, Incorporated"
Jaco used harmonics extensively- both natural and induced. I'm going to try them next time I pick it up - which will be in like 2 minutes! My poor customized Squier Affinity PJ is feeling awfully neglected lately...
Good suggestions all - thanks for the encouragement!
My first three instruments were fretless electric bass, upright bass, and trombone.
I tried playing a fretless trombone back in HS - no luck. Ended up on a big fretted tube. And those who heard me play it fretted ;-)
Harmonics are great and there's more than you could count and keep track of tbh.
Try sliding your harmonics once you get good at ringing them, so fun!
With proper intonation setup my SRF705 is in tune right above the markers, but I don't look over them anyway
BTW.. I recommend you to look at this video, Rich is an awesome musician and a great teacher:
Thanks for posting this.
When I first watched it, I was skeptical.
But after a few days working on the exercise, I really like it.
There is nothing in that 'lesson' which explains how that exercise is better for intonation than any other exercise. Intonation is not improved by playing this or that note or interval sequence or pattern. It comes from rigorous development of handshape/posture, accurate shifting (without loss of hand-shape) and knowing what 'in tune' sounds like. And those things can and should be worked on universally across the board at all times, no matter what is being played. Yet they don't get a mention. He should explain what, if anything, about the fingering, shifting and positioning makes it good for intonation, or better than other choices.
On a lighter note did you notice how he says "with no vibrato" and then goes on to play with vibrato? It is also interesting that he chose not to deomonstrate the entire sequence - some of the string-crossings and shift requirements get quite 'interesting' if you want to maintain hand-shape and avoid fingering 'cul-de-sacs'.
Your killin' me with all that eye candy and no names/brands... ! Care to share? I feel like I should know just by the body shape, but I cant place the brands... Carvin keeps coming to mind... but...
If you play it in the dark and over three octaves instead of two it is a good exercise. As is any other pattern. But you have to use a drone or backing track.
Sure thing. From left to right
1) Carvin Icon 6 (Claro walnut top, maple walnut neck & coated fingerboard, humbuckers &piezo bridge)
2) Kiesel Icon 6 ( chocolate maple top, 7pc neck, 3pc body (walnut, purple heart, maple top))
3) Carvin lb76 (solid Koa body, maple Koa neck, single coils & piezo bridge)
To those who suggest to use a tuner: this is useless. There is no point trying to play "more in-tune" than what your ear can detect (please note that your audience will also not "listen" to you by looking at a tuner, but with their ears).
Does this mean we should be satisfied if our ears do not detect any intonation issue? Of course not. We should work hard on sharpening and improving our pitch and interval detection skills. It is a lifelong battle.
The way to work on this is to use a keyboard and practice hearing - and singing - intervals. You should particularly work on the most consonant intervals (and their inversions): octaves, 5ths, then majors and minor 3rds, then major and minor 2nds, and finally tritons (all other intervals are inversions of those).
On your instrument, start by practicing playing octaves and 5ths. There are 2 reasons for this:
1. they are the most consonant intervals and therefore those for which our pitch detection is the sharpest.
2. they can be played in position (without shifting) with a very relaxed hand shape; (I personnaly prefer playing them with 1 and 4, à la Simandl, but if you go for 1-2-3-4 technique, play them with 1 and 3 consistently). This will help you establishing a rigorous hade shape and enable the so-called "muscle memory" (of course muscles have no memory, and memory takes place entirely in our brain, but this is a convenient way of talking about proprioception).
Practice with closed eyes, focussing your attention on what your ears tell you. Sing the interval before playing it (you cannot play in tune what you cannot ear and sing in tune).
Then practice other intervals you can play in-position.
Then practice shifting, starting with small shifts.
Do all this with closed eyes (at least for part of your practice). Of course, when performing music, you will open your eyes and also watch your fingerboard (to use all visual cues available there), as well as all other things you need to watch (sheet music, band mates, chicks in the audience, etc.), but closing your eyes while practicing will help sharpening your ears and train your muscle memory.
Does this mean we should be satisfied if our ears do not detect any intonation issue? Of course not. We should work hard on sharpening and improving our pitch and interval detection skills. It is a lifelong battle.
The way to work on this is to use a keyboard and practice hearing - and singing - intervals. You should particularly work on the most consonant intervals (and their inversions): octaves, 5ths, then majors and minor 3rds, then major and minor 2nds, and finally tritons (all other intervals are inversions of those).
On your instrument, start by practicing playing octaves and 5ths. There are 2 reasons for this:
1. they are the most consonant intervals and therefore those for which our pitch detection is the sharpest.
2. they can be played in position (without shifting) with a very relaxed hand shape; (I personnaly prefer playing them with 1 and 4, à la Simandl, but if you go for 1-2-3-4 technique, play them with 1 and 3 consistently). This will help you establishing a rigorous hade shape and enable the so-called "muscle memory" (of course muscles have no memory, and memory takes place entirely in our brain, but this is a convenient way of talking about proprioception).
Practice with closed eyes, focussing your attention on what your ears tell you. Sing the interval before playing it (you cannot play in tune what you cannot ear and sing in tune).
Then practice other intervals you can play in-position.
Then practice shifting, starting with small shifts.
Do all this with closed eyes (at least for part of your practice). Of course, when performing music, you will open your eyes and also watch your fingerboard (to use all visual cues available there), as well as all other things you need to watch (sheet music, band mates, chicks in the audience, etc.), but closing your eyes while practicing will help sharpening your ears and train your muscle memory.
Thank you for your contribution but I think you misunderstood the idea of this short sample excercise. For me it is only first step and a part of more advanced training. Personally, as a beginner fretless player I found this exercise very effective. Stretching it on entire fretboard, playing scales in different positions, with drones in background and using my ears rather than eyes helped me improve my left hand technique and develop muscle memory.
Maybe there is a "better" and more complex training video showing more methods and techniques, If so link it please instead wasting time on unconstructive criticism.
On a lighter note I don’t know why you picking on fact he uses vibrato twice at the end of example, it doesn’t matter at all in my opinion, but it’s only me
Steve,
I think the benefit of the exercise is, as Papageno suggested, starting with octaves as they are the most consonant interval.
But instead of practicing just one octave pair, practice three at a time based our ability to recognize adjacent intervals.
I think most of us can recognize adjacent intervals much better than any other order, thanks to Julie Andrews of course.
I think the benefit of the exercise is, as Papageno suggested, starting with octaves as they are the most consonant interval.
But instead of practicing just one octave pair, practice three at a time based our ability to recognize adjacent intervals.
I think most of us can recognize adjacent intervals much better than any other order, thanks to Julie Andrews of course.
Perhaps as a beginner you should learn to.listen to those with more experience.
He said that one of the things to do when focussing on intonation, and which I would endorse, is not applying vibrato. Then he does it. Twice.
If you take the time to read any of my posts you will see that I am not unconstructive. I have posted extensively on intonation and the right ways to develop and improve it. Just presenting a series of notes with no instruction on hand-shape or fingering is npt one of them.
