That's okay, if that was the case he could have told me, no problem. (Thing is I'm sure there are no investors, he's the owner of a big company and he is his own investor, even willing to pay to play.)
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Fired without a reason
- Thread starter AndreBas
- Start date
+1
On the other hand, in these kind of situations I prefer to talk to a real manager. The manager will say "You asked for this much, I offer you only that much, take it or leave it." And nobody gets hurt.
this why vocalists should not be band leaders.
They don't have to haul ANYTHING to gigs or rehearsals. So they simply don't empathize with guitarists, bassists and drummers that do.
They don't have to haul ANYTHING to gigs or rehearsals. So they simply don't empathize with guitarists, bassists and drummers that do.
You can't "make" anybody do anything. Given the OP's situation with a band he has jammed with 2 years, and has put extra effort in beyond just learning the songs, the least the guy could do is tell him why to his face. I guess it was the way I was raised. Like me, I'm sure this isn't the first time anyone has heard a story exactly like this, that is why it is frustrating to me. It sounds like he's screwed himself anyway giving himself 1 week to get a whole new band ready for an out of town gig.
I find stories like this always very interesting, especially if they come from people living & gigging in a different part of the world; always nice to hear & read how things are different.
I personally would just move on. Similar situations have happened to me in the past, and most of the time I was dumbstruck for a day but then decided to look elsewhere for other bands.
There are a lot of people who shouldn't be band leaders because they're plain awful at dealing with uncomfortable situations.
You gigged/played with that singer for quite some time and probably did a decent job, yet he decided to fire the band.
IMO, unfortunately, there's a lesson here. Even if things run smoothly and everybody seems to be easy going, it doesn't mean things cannot get nasty within a very short time.
I would probably send him an email letting him know that I consider his behaviour immature and bad style given the fact you played with him for that long and did a professional job.
It wouldn't change anything, but maybe he realizes that his behaviour was quite pathetic.
Just my 2 cents.
I personally would just move on. Similar situations have happened to me in the past, and most of the time I was dumbstruck for a day but then decided to look elsewhere for other bands.
There are a lot of people who shouldn't be band leaders because they're plain awful at dealing with uncomfortable situations.
You gigged/played with that singer for quite some time and probably did a decent job, yet he decided to fire the band.
IMO, unfortunately, there's a lesson here. Even if things run smoothly and everybody seems to be easy going, it doesn't mean things cannot get nasty within a very short time.
I would probably send him an email letting him know that I consider his behaviour immature and bad style given the fact you played with him for that long and did a professional job.
It wouldn't change anything, but maybe he realizes that his behaviour was quite pathetic.
Just my 2 cents.
Dont burn bridges, things like this happen all the time, not only to musicians but employees in general around the world, I will reply his email with something like: I understand you position, thanks for the opportunity given I really enjoyed all this time, if in the future you need a solid bassist you know where to find him, I know we can always negotiate the best for both parties.
He'll probably be singing to recorded music.
Any way you can get someone to attend the shows, record them and let you know how it went.
Asking for 16 hours of nearly straight travel is ridiculous. He wants to lose as little as possible and has no problem taking it out of your life/free time.
Good luck.
PS. You were always sidemen and never really a band. All your band members are interchangeable as far as he's concerned. If you helped him in the past makes no difference today, since you aren't "helping" him RIGHT NOW!
He's ambitious and will use and abuse whomever/whatever to get ahead.
Wish him "good luck with that" and move on.
No need to confront him, email him, etc. You just don't matter to him.
When he comes to his senses and needs you sometime in the future, I guarantee you that he'll call you and "make nice" to get you to join him again.
Any way you can get someone to attend the shows, record them and let you know how it went.
Asking for 16 hours of nearly straight travel is ridiculous. He wants to lose as little as possible and has no problem taking it out of your life/free time.
Good luck.
PS. You were always sidemen and never really a band. All your band members are interchangeable as far as he's concerned. If you helped him in the past makes no difference today, since you aren't "helping" him RIGHT NOW!
He's ambitious and will use and abuse whomever/whatever to get ahead.
Wish him "good luck with that" and move on.
No need to confront him, email him, etc. You just don't matter to him.
When he comes to his senses and needs you sometime in the future, I guarantee you that he'll call you and "make nice" to get you to join him again.
... let's see how this one-week-band will compare to the one-year-bandIf his new band will sound better, I'd have no problem to admit that his decision was good for his career. But still, why couldn't he talk about it and remain friends?...
Because he is not your friend. You & your band mates are nothing more than hired help to him. That will never change with that type of person. Egos like that are a dime a dozen. No need to respond to him at all, just move forward with the guitarist and wash your hands of him once and for all.
Why lie? To play with this guy again, he would need to sign a contract with me for every gig. And at that point of lack of confidence I prefer to work with more trustworthy people.
It turns out that there was no out of town gig last saturday. One of my students went to see that show because it was in his home city and he had to travel for that weekend anyway, but there was no opening act. I find that quite disappointing because my student wanted to film the performance of that guy with his new band and was curious to see it.
I don't know if the organizers of the show cancelled the opening band and for that reason the singer found it easier to fire us as now he had more time to rehearse with other musicians. Or if the singer cancelled this show because he felt that his new band wasn't ready yet.
Anyway, for this saturday the guy "officially" announced his other out of own gig on Facebook. Problem is that I have nobody there to film it for me. Let's see if anybody posts a clip on YouTube.
What's the big deal here?
You're a sideman, and have always known that. You and your boss disagreed about how much you should get paid for out of town gigs. (I'm on your side here; 16 hours of travel in South America by bus requires some compensation.) He declined to pay you more for those shows (as is his right). You said that was unacceptable. As a result, he terminated your business relationship.
What's confusing here? Nobody is obligated to do business with anyone else. Do you really not understand why you were fired, or is it just that you think you deserve some kind of explanation? (I certainly would have given that, if I had been your bandleader. Clear communication is important in these situations.)
You're a sideman, and have always known that. You and your boss disagreed about how much you should get paid for out of town gigs. (I'm on your side here; 16 hours of travel in South America by bus requires some compensation.) He declined to pay you more for those shows (as is his right). You said that was unacceptable. As a result, he terminated your business relationship.
What's confusing here? Nobody is obligated to do business with anyone else. Do you really not understand why you were fired, or is it just that you think you deserve some kind of explanation? (I certainly would have given that, if I had been your bandleader. Clear communication is important in these situations.)
@Mattosaur:
The "big deal" is in deed about communication. Once the singer had stated he'd pay us more for out of town gigs, but since there weren't any out of town gigs we didn't get to negotiate a rate.
When he confirmed the two out of town gigs, we arranged our time that means cancel classes or get a sub, don't accept rehearsals or gigs with other artists for those days or send a sub to other bands if they have gigs the same weekend. Then four days before the travel we get fired by e-mail. I don't say it's illegal. But it's not the kind of behavior I'm looking for in an employer. The fact that I'm a sideman doesn't mean people can treat me like ****.
And I don't know how you were brought up or how the business culture is in your country, but loyalty is definitely an issue for me. When I'm loyal to an artist, meaning I give them priority in my schedule, I also expect loyalty from the artist. That means that if there's a problem with how I do the job, they would let me know. And if they thought there was no solution to the problem, they would also let me know.
The "big deal" is in deed about communication. Once the singer had stated he'd pay us more for out of town gigs, but since there weren't any out of town gigs we didn't get to negotiate a rate.
When he confirmed the two out of town gigs, we arranged our time that means cancel classes or get a sub, don't accept rehearsals or gigs with other artists for those days or send a sub to other bands if they have gigs the same weekend. Then four days before the travel we get fired by e-mail. I don't say it's illegal. But it's not the kind of behavior I'm looking for in an employer. The fact that I'm a sideman doesn't mean people can treat me like ****.
And I don't know how you were brought up or how the business culture is in your country, but loyalty is definitely an issue for me. When I'm loyal to an artist, meaning I give them priority in my schedule, I also expect loyalty from the artist. That means that if there's a problem with how I do the job, they would let me know. And if they thought there was no solution to the problem, they would also let me know.
I am sorry Sir.
All of that sounds great, but in my experience, that is NOT the way it goes in the " REAL" world. If these really are your expectations, you will be sorely disappointed.
OFTEN.
Here goes the comparison old band vs. new (these are the exact same parts of the exact same songs, just sounding a little different with new arrangements.)
^This!
By responding positively, he keeps your name on his contact list. He'll know that your not resentful and may need you in future projects and your easily approachable, you already know his material. Even if he doesn't need you he may name-drop you to another person, that he knows, that needs an easy-going bass player.
A negative reply will shut the doors of future contacts with him and others. Take the high road.
I agree with xgator4u, the music business is still business. If your doing this for fun I guess thats another story.
I once spent three weeks of my own time after school to learn how to tint windows. After the shop owner saw that I was proficient at it he hired me for the summer. I saw this as an investment.
Roy Vogt
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Well, he's getting what he's paying for as we say in the US. 
It sounds like a too familiar scenario in the Music Biz. He is asking for Band Member loyalty at Sideman wages and conditions. I'd move on to another situation, there is probably another Singer out there who will pay for his Vanity Project (or his "investors" will) and will hire a great bassist and guitarist. There is very likely a much, much better working situation available as well for good players.
One of the progressions of a player in the working world is to determine what is fair and right in his case and in a nice way insist on that and realize that he or she can't continue to work for what they initially found acceptable. Onward and upward! I've been doing this a while and the $30 a night gigs of "I gotta start somewhere" are decades in the past. It gets better.
It sounds like a too familiar scenario in the Music Biz. He is asking for Band Member loyalty at Sideman wages and conditions. I'd move on to another situation, there is probably another Singer out there who will pay for his Vanity Project (or his "investors" will) and will hire a great bassist and guitarist. There is very likely a much, much better working situation available as well for good players.
One of the progressions of a player in the working world is to determine what is fair and right in his case and in a nice way insist on that and realize that he or she can't continue to work for what they initially found acceptable. Onward and upward! I've been doing this a while and the $30 a night gigs of "I gotta start somewhere" are decades in the past. It gets better.
WAY too long. If I wanted to read a book, I'd go to Amazon. Especially considering that it's obviously fiction: there was a reason you were fired, you just don't want to face it.
Bruce
