First Build - "Lucifer"

[Jeff Siddall]

Hmm.....
Okay, I need some help locating parts......or a shopping list if you will. Here's what I need (or at least I think I need, correct me if I'm wrong) -

• (1) volume pot - 500k, right?
• (2) on-off mini toggle switches (for individual pickup on-off) - This is where I'm having the most trouble. I see "on-off-on", or "on-on", or "on-on-on". But I can't seem to locate an on-off mini switch.
• (3) on-on mini toggle switches (one for pre-amp bypass and two for pickup coil split).
• (1) barrel jack
• (1) battery box

The rest I already have or is on the way.
So if someone smart can verify this list, that would be awesome. Then we'll start talking about wiring diagrams again, because I made it way harder than just swapping a blend knob for a pickup selector.

Regarding the volume pot, the resistance you choose is a matter of preference. 500K is twice the resistance (half the load) of a 250K to your pickup and, all things being equal, the lower the load the brighter the tone. So if you want bright tone go with 500K. I put 500K in almost everything.

Regarding the pickup on/off switches, yes, like @Slidlow said, ON-ON is the SPDT version of an ON-OFF SPST. Here is another drawing with a description:

                    |---|
                    | o | <-- This pin is only on double throw switch and can be left disconnected to make the switch ON-OFF
   To pickup output | o |
         To vol pot | o |
                    |---|

I don't know your level of understanding of switches and how they work, so if this is too basic just let me know.

The term "OFF" just means nothing is connected in the "OFF" positions, and you will find some switches with OFF positions. However, most have only ON positions, sometimes 2 or 3 or more! ON-ON simply means that there are two switch positions and both are connecting something to the common (center) connection so are considered to be "ON". In the case of the connectors on the SPDT I drew above, the SP means single pole, or one common connector (the middle connection in these type of toggle switches) being connected to something else (one of the two outside connectors, depending on the switch position). The DT part means double throw, or two switch positions (up/down, left/right depending on how you orient the switch handle).

So, assuming you mount the switch with the paddle moving up/down, when the switch is in the down position the center connection is internally connected to the top connection (the connections are joined opposite from the direction of the lever). When the switch lever is flipped up, the center connection is internally connected to the bottom connection. Now, if you happen to leave the top connector not connected to anything then when you switch the lever down there is nothing connected to the center connection so it effectively has become an "OFF".

Hopefully that makes sense.

One more thing: with both pickups on, do you want them in parallel? That is typical, like on a J-bass, and can be done with either a SPST (or SPDT) switch. Series will require DPDT switches, and a bit more complexity, but can be done.

For the toggle switch for preamp bypass you need at least a DPDT to fully remove it from the circuit. One pole (one of the two center connectors) is used to switch the input to the preamp, the other is used to switch the output from the preamp. If you also want to control the power to the preamp you need a third pole for that. Finding a 3PDT switch in the color and paddle style you want could be difficult so in the manufacturer diagrams you will notice the preamp stays powered even when in passive mode.

For the coil split switch, all you are doing there is shorting one of the two coils. For that you only need a SPST or, as pointed out above, a SPDT with one of the outside terminals disconnected.

For the barrel jack, if you don't have a switch turning off the power to the preamp then you can use a "stereo" jack instead, where the ring terminal provides a ground path for your preamp power when a mono jack is plugged in.

Let me know if you have any questions about all this.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Regarding the volume pot, the resistance you choose is a matter of preference. 500K is twice the resistance (half the load) of a 250K to your pickup and, all things being equal, the lower the load the brighter the tone. So if you want bright tone go with 500K. I put 500K in almost everything.

Regarding the pickup on/off switches, yes, like @Slidlow said, ON-ON is the SPDT version of an ON-OFF SPST. Here is another drawing with a description:

                    |---|
                    | o | <-- This pin is only on double throw switch and can be left disconnected to make the switch ON-OFF
   To pickup output | o |
         To vol pot | o |
                    |---|

I don't know your level of understanding of switches and how they work, so if this is too basic just let me know.

The term "OFF" just means nothing is connected in the "OFF" positions, and you will find some switches with OFF positions. However, most have only ON positions, sometimes 2 or 3 or more! ON-ON simply means that there are two switch positions and both are connecting something to the common (center) connection so are considered to be "ON". In the case of the connectors on the SPDT I drew above, the SP means single pole, or one common connector (the middle connection in these type of toggle switches) being connected to something else (one of the two outside connectors, depending on the switch position). The DT part means double throw, or two switch positions (up/down, left/right depending on how you orient the switch handle).

So, assuming you mount the switch with the paddle moving up/down, when the switch is in the down position the center connection is internally connected to the top connection (the connections are joined opposite from the direction of the lever). When the switch lever is flipped up, the center connection is internally connected to the bottom connection. Now, if you happen to leave the top connector not connected to anything then when you switch the lever down there is nothing connected to the center connection so it effectively has become an "OFF".

Hopefully that makes sense.

One more thing: with both pickups on, do you want them in parallel? That is typical, like on a J-bass, and can be done with either a SPST (or SPDT) switch. Series will require DPDT switches, and a bit more complexity, but can be done.

For the toggle switch for preamp bypass you need at least a DPDT to fully remove it from the circuit. One pole (one of the two center connectors) is used to switch the input to the preamp, the other is used to switch the output from the preamp. If you also want to control the power to the preamp you need a third pole for that. Finding a 3PDT switch in the color and paddle style you want could be difficult so in the manufacturer diagrams you will notice the preamp stays powered even when in passive mode.

For the coil split switch, all you are doing there is shorting one of the two coils. For that you only need a SPST or, as pointed out above, a SPDT with one of the outside terminals disconnected.

For the barrel jack, if you don't have a switch turning off the power to the preamp then you can use a "stereo" jack instead, where the ring terminal provides a ground path for your preamp power when a mono jack is plugged in.

Let me know if you have any questions about all this.

Jeff,
Awesome info, and I'm probably gonna need to read through it a couple times to fully grasp it (and then I'll probably forget in two days like I normally do). Triad says the pickups are buckers, and can be split and run as singles. He recommends keeping them in series because they will be very bright in parallel. I know my Darkglass is bright in and of itself. Also a lot of wenge in this neck, which tends to lean toward bright too. So maybe I just leave well enough alone and stay series.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I re-read this again.....and again.

 

[Jeff Siddall]

Jeff,
Awesome info, and I'm probably gonna need to read through it a couple times to fully grasp it (and then I'll probably forget in two days like I normally do). Triad says the pickups are buckers, and can be split and run as singles. He recommends keeping them in series because they will be very bright in parallel. I know my Darkglass is bright in and of itself. Also a lot of wenge in this neck, which tends to lean toward bright too. So maybe I just leave well enough alone and stay series.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I re-read this again.....and again.

There are actually 4 coils in play here -- two in each pickup. I am guessing Triad is talking about the two coils in each humbucker as those coils are normally wired in series. But the two pickups are normally wired in parallel with each other. Just wanted to confirm that was your goal.

Of course, you can also put in yet another switch to control series or parallel for the two pickups. But don't let me distract you!

 

[TerribleTim68]

...Of course, you can also put in yet another switch to control series or parallel for the two pickups. But don't let me distract you!

 

[dwizum]

Hmm.....
Okay, I need some help locating parts......or a shopping list if you will. Here's what I need (or at least I think I need, correct me if I'm wrong) -

• (1) volume pot - 500k, right?
• (2) on-off mini toggle switches (for individual pickup on-off) - This is where I'm having the most trouble. I see "on-off-on", or "on-on", or "on-on-on". But I can't seem to locate an on-off mini switch.
• (3) on-on mini toggle switches (one for pre-amp bypass and two for pickup coil split).
• (1) barrel jack
• (1) battery box

The rest I already have or is on the way.
So if someone smart can verify this list, that would be awesome. Then we'll start talking about wiring diagrams again, because I made it way harder than just swapping a blend knob for a pickup selector.

The schematic for your preamp has the volume before the preamp. In that case you'd use a typical pot value for a totally passive setup. 500k would probably be fine, but many basses use 250k pots by default. If you're not sure, look for info from your pickup maker on which pots they suggest.

For the pickup on-off toggles - you can really use ANY toggle switch. An "on-on" will work fine. It will have three contacts, and the switching action will toggle which of the outer two contacts is connected to the middle contact. So, you put your "out" wire on the middle contact, and the wire from the pickup on either of the outer two contacts. And you leave the other outer contact empty. That way, when you throw the switch one way, the contact with the pickup will be connected to the middle wire. When you throw it the other way, the empty contact will be connected to the middle, and the pickup will be off.

The rest of your list looks fine. For the barrel jack, make sure it's a stereo jack, not mono. The vast majority of barrel jacks are stereo but it pays to check.

For wiring, I would run the 4 conductor cable from the pickups to the coil split switches, which will basically distill the pickup cable into a single hot wire. Then, run that hot wire for each pickup to the on/off toggle as mentioned above. The outputs from the two on/off toggles can be run (as a single wire, or two) to the volume pot, and from there onwards it's just following the diagram in the preamp's documentation.

For the coil split switches, it helps to think of each pickup as having a bottom (ground), middle (the two wires that get connected to each other in serial mode), and a top (the hot wire). Using Seymour Duncan pickups as an example, green is ground, red and white together are the middle, and black is hot.

To coil split, you basically take that middle point (the red and white wires together, in our example) and connect it either to the bottom (shorting out the first coil and leaving the second active) or the top (shorting out the second coil and leaving the first active). For a bass with two pickups, it's typical to split to opposite coils by default (i.e. the first coil from one pickup and the second coil from the other) such that when the two "single coil" pickups are played together you still get humbucking performance.

So - for one pickup, you need to connect red/white to green. With the other pickup, you need to connect red/white to black. The on-on switches will have three terminals. Put your red/white on the middle terminal, and put the other wire on either of the outside two terminals. When the switch is in one position, red/white won't be connected to anything (except each other) and the pickup will be in serial mode. When you throw the switch, red/white will be connected to your other wire and short out the specified coil.

Probably would have been easier to just draw it all out, but hopefully that helps!

 

[TerribleTim68]

Okay, so I'm trying to draw this out myself, because it's probably a good learning exercise. So here's where I got to at the moment -

I've based a lot of this off of Darkglass's wiring schematic for "Volume-Blend with Bypass", replacing the blend for the on-off switches (I think I did that right).
As you can see, I have 3 questions -

1. Triad says "Red & White are the positives, Black & Blue are the negatives, Yellow is the shielding, goes to ground". So I know where yellow goes. But how do I connect the positive and negative wires from each pup to the coil split switch?
2. Where does the series/parallel switch get wired in, and how? Wouldn't each pickup need to somehow run to it before the volume? (yeah, I added another switch)
3. How the heck does all this connect to these barrel jacks?

 

[Jon Clegg]

Okay, so I'm trying to draw this out myself, because it's probably a good learning exercise. So here's where I got to at the moment -
View attachment 4146373
I've based a lot of this off of Darkglass's wiring schematic for "Volume-Blend with Bypass", replacing the blend for the on-off switches (I think I did that right).
As you can see, I have 3 questions -

1. Triad says "Red & White are the positives, Black & Blue are the negatives, Yellow is the shielding, goes to ground". So I know where yellow goes. But how do I connect the positive and negative wires from each pup to the coil split switch?
2. Where does the series/parallel switch get wired in, and how? Wouldn't each pickup need to somehow run to it before the volume? (yeah, I added another switch)
3. How the heck does all this connect to these barrel jacks?

1: For a simple coil split I would connect the red and white at the switch and ground that junction to split the coils (effectively you short out one of the coils) BUT this is somewhat dependent on the answer to 2 below:

2: Are you talking about series/parallel for the coils in each humbucker or selecting between wiring the two pickups in series/parallel?

 

[TerribleTim68]

1: For a simple coil split I would connect the red and white at the switch and ground that junction to split the coils (effectively you short out one of the coils) BUT this is somewhat dependent on the answer to 2 below:.....

Uhh........

...2: Are you talking about series/parallel for the coils in each humbucker or selecting between wiring the two pickups in series/parallel?

I'm only talking about wiring the two pickups in series/parallel, not within each bucker.

 

[Jon Clegg]

Uhh........

I'm only talking about wiring the two pickups in series/parallel, not within each bucker.

OK, I can draw up a diagram when I get home tonight.

 

[TerribleTim68]

OK, I can draw up a diagram when I get home tonight.

Thanks Jon.

 

[Jeff Siddall]

Okay, so I'm trying to draw this out myself, because it's probably a good learning exercise. So here's where I got to at the moment -
View attachment 4146373
I've based a lot of this off of Darkglass's wiring schematic for "Volume-Blend with Bypass", replacing the blend for the on-off switches (I think I did that right).
As you can see, I have 3 questions -

1. Triad says "Red & White are the positives, Black & Blue are the negatives, Yellow is the shielding, goes to ground". So I know where yellow goes. But how do I connect the positive and negative wires from each pup to the coil split switch?
2. Where does the series/parallel switch get wired in, and how? Wouldn't each pickup need to somehow run to it before the volume? (yeah, I added another switch)
3. How the heck does all this connect to these barrel jacks?

First the easy one, #3: connect the battery negative to the center connector on the barrel switch. The one on the right is for ground so just extend the yellow line to join it. The connector on the left is for the output which comes from your bypass switch.

When you connect a mono patch cord into the jack it will join the center and right terminals, connecting the battery negative to ground.

Now, #1 is a bit trickier. It would have been good if Triad had explained which coil was which, but so long as you are consistent it probably doesn't matter. Hopefully they aren't mixing "start/finish" nomenclature with "positive/negative". Hmmm... that probably needs a bit of explanation. Queue a sidebar:

To get two coils to eliminate hum, the direction of the induced voltage in the windings needs to be reversed (called reverse winding or RW), but to prevent this phase reversal from also cancelling the signal from the moving string the magnet direction must also be reversed (called reverse polarity or RP). Combine the two and this is referred to as "RWRP".

For the rest of the discussion, let's assume you want your pickups in-phase, which is the standard wiring for any instrument without a phase switch. But don't get sidetracked with phase switches!

If the coils are actually wound in the reverse directions (one clockwise and one counterclockwise) then the signal from the start to end of one coil is the same polarity as the signal from the start to end of the other and you need to connect them with positive connecting to negative (+-+-). The negative of the first coil goes to the positive of the second.

However, if the coils are not actually wound in reverse directions from each other (historically both are wound counterclockwise) then the signal from the string is actually reversed (due to the RP of the magnet) so you need to reverse the start/finish wires to reverse the windings (the RW part). So if the coils are wound the same way, then to avoid confusion about what is actually positive and what is negative, the manufacturers typically change the terminology to "start/finish". In "start/finish" terminology you need to connect both finishes together and the start of the first coil is positive and the start of the second coil is negative.​

Back to Triad: if you assume that the first of the two wires make a coil (i.e.: red and black), and that the coils are in phase, then you should connect black to white, and connect that to the center connector of each of your coil split switches. Then connect the blues to ground.

To preserve hum cancelling when both coils are split connect the other side of the coil split switch to the red wire on one pickup and the blue wire on the other.

For #2, it's getting significantly complicated. Because the way a pickup needs to be wired for on/off changes depending on series or parallel wiring, you need to make a call about whether you want series parallel, or individual switches per pickup. It's not easy to keep both. What I might propose at this point is if you choose series parallel then go with a standard 3-way pickup selector switch instead. And maybe add a master on/off (mute) switch if you really like that idea. For the series parallel you need a DPDT wired like this:

                 |-----|
       To ground | o o | To pickup 1 red and output to volume knob
To pickup 1 blue | o o | To pickup 2 red
                 | o-o |
                 |-----|

Note: the bottom two connectors are joined together.

If you do want a master mute, that is simple: connect a SPST across the output from the volume pot and ground.

Good luck!

 

[Flying B]

Okay, so I'm trying to draw this out myself, because it's probably a good learning exercise. So here's where I got to at the moment -
View attachment 4146373
I've based a lot of this off of Darkglass's wiring schematic for "Volume-Blend with Bypass", replacing the blend for the on-off switches (I think I did that right).
As you can see, I have 3 questions -

1. Triad says "Red & White are the positives, Black & Blue are the negatives, Yellow is the shielding, goes to ground". So I know where yellow goes. But how do I connect the positive and negative wires from each pup to the coil split switch?
2. Where does the series/parallel switch get wired in, and how? Wouldn't each pickup need to somehow run to it before the volume? (yeah, I added another switch)
3. How the heck does all this connect to these barrel jacks?

Crikey, this is why I like single pickup passive basses!

 

[Jeff Siddall]

Crikey, this is why I like single pickup passive basses!

...and why I am building a computer controlled preamp

 

[tobascovodka]

I've always forgotten to ask this. What app are you all using to draw all these blueprints?

 

[TerribleTim68]

I've always forgotten to ask this. What app are you all using to draw all these blueprints?

I don't use an app. I use AutoCAD. I design commercial kitchens for my day job and have worked in the Architecture industry for almost 20 years now so I have access to AutoCAD and Revit through my real job, so I just use that.

 

[TerribleTim68]

I'm pretty excited about this -

For those going "okay?......." that's my pickups from @Triad. So that means I'll have my pickups and the pre in-hand very soon. Looks like I might need to start ordering pots, a jack and switches for that crazy wiring plan I had.

I haven't really said much on this one because I'm kind of in a holding pattern for the moment. That drill bit that I broke off, then dug out and plugged the excavation hole, I managed to drill a new hole for the bridge saddle screw.....and then break the head off the screw while mounting it.
It was at that point I got frustrated and set it off to the side and walked away. I have one of these little buggers in hand -

But clearly I need a drill press for this operation, which I do not own. So until I figure that maneuver out, I'm still on hold.....and still slightly frustrated, which kills my desire to "do something".

But maybe having "stuff" in hand will motivate me a bit more.

 

[Beej]

How very annoying. My too-late-to-help-in-this-case passed-down-to-me carpenter tips for screwing in wood:

Pilot holes should generally be the same width as the shaft of the screw. Smaller for softer woods and you can go larger for a really hard wood.

Wax your screws before driving them into the holes for the first time. Paste wax works, and so does rubbing paraffin (candle) wax onto the screws before driving them in. Both can contaminate unfinished wood, so tape things off as needed. Some people use soap but all soaps are at least mildly caustic and can make the wood turn black around the screw holes. There aren't too many applications I can think of where this is desirable on an instrument.

Really hard woods or needing to use screws of questionable origin you can make a "tap" out of a screw by filing/dremeling a slot down the side of the screw to create a cutting edge. Turn the screw in and back it out like a tap and tap the hole into the wood.

 

[Ripthorn]

Sorry I didn't respond to the bridge mounting question. Been away a bit lately. Happy to help with any specific questions you might still have.

 

[ctmullins]

Ouch. In addition to what Beej said - never use the screws that come with cheap hardware. Go to the hardware store and get good Grade 5 or 8 or stainless screws instead.

 

[Beej]

I saw the veneer discussion with @Slidlow in the other thread, but thought I'd weigh in back here.

If I'm joining two lighter coloured woods, I use walnut veneer. It looks nearly black in the final application against lighter woods, plus its plentiful in long lengths like you need for a neck thru. Like Slidlow talks about, using a very thin veneer still allows for clean and visible definitions between the layers. You can also double them up if you think you want a little more thickness. I've had success with gluing up veneers with black epoxy glue and it looked pretty clean. I did a tester with oak, and it was way too porous and the veneer looked streaky around the joints, so closed grain woods are probably better.