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First time fretless - where's the MWAH?

#21
The coating on a maple board may be a factor.

Although it's not good to generalize, polyester is typically a softer resin system than epoxy. Properly cured CA glue is also harder than poly.

If the board has a factory polyester coating and it's a thick film, that will inhibit mwah.

But as mentioned previously, some fretlesses just aren't mwah machines.

I have an early 80's unlined G&L L2000E with an ebony board and it is all meat and muscle, no mwah.

Some say that maple isn't a good choice for mwah, but I've heard players get good mwah from a fretless maple board.
 
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#22
Mwah formula:
- Round-wound strings
- Lower action
- Tone wide open

More of "That Fretless Tone" people usually talk about:
- Very gentle overdrive or distortion
- Boost the high-mids a bit.
- Chorus to taste
- Just a touch of reverb. Like, only enough that you notice it when you turn off the reverb.
 
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#25
Rimshot said:
I recently picked up a Sire Marcus Miller V7 2nd Generation 4-string Fretless Bass. I'm not sure what the strings are that came on it from Sweetwater.

It has a hard maple neck and fingerboard. I'm looking to get much more 'mwah' from it that I seem to be able to now.

I've been advised to get DR Sunbeams. Does that sound right?
Click to expand...
Experiment a lot with your playing technique (both hands) and your instrument's setup, before worrying too much about other considerations.
 
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#26
In addition to the other suggestions already provided, I personally find that favoring the bridge pickup (if you have one) tends to emphasize the mwah sound a bit more. You might or might not prefer the bridge pickup sounds for other reasons (I do not) but it can help in getting maximum mwah for someone who wants it IMO, My guess is this is mainly to do with typical EQ profiles of pickup locations, though, so you may be able to get a similar result with EQ from the bass/amp/pedals/etc.
 
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#27
all the advice is good. I found my mwah with the following.. to reiterate above


1. correct nut height *** didn't see it mentioned above.
2. Flattish board with very little relief. And no dips in the wood.
3. Plucking hand location
4. low mid adjustment
5. how you fret (pads of fingertips) and vibrato technique

Check out Yo Yo Ma and Mark Egan and how much mwah they can get on certain pieces. Garry willis technique is great for this (all these are on youtube).
 
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#30
Agreed with @Low Main : coating changes the mwah sounds. I would say the harder the better.

Also agreed with @FullumMusic, chorus and reverbs helps a lot.
Here is a video I made that illustrates what I would consider as the “mwah sound”.

- Moderately low action and flat neck. Could be better
- To compensate, I plucked the strings in a “rounder” way.
- Plucking over the neck pick up.
- Round wound strings
- Bridge pickup 100%, neck pick up 70%, tone 70% to break the highs of the strings
- Chorus + reverb over ambiant stuff I had just recorded
- Intention : you can hear when I WANT to get some mwah. Your playing should not be flat with linear dynamic. Make some notes soft, make other ones shine.

 
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#31
JamesGrant said:
Word of warning, roundwounds can chew up the finger board pretty quickly. I have flats on my fretless - I know the fingerboard isn’t the hardest wood out there.
Click to expand...
Can we lay this myth to rest please?

Roundwounds on a fretless will leave marks on the fingerboard, yes. These marks are completely superficial, and do not constitute damage in any way. They will not worsen with continued playing.

Poor technique is what will chew up a fingerboard pretty quickly. Guitar-style vibrato is the usual culprit - use cello-style vibrato instead.
 
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#32
ctmullins said:
Can we lay this myth to rest please?

Roundwounds on a fretless will leave marks on the fingerboard, yes. These marks are completely superficial, and do not constitute damage in any way. They will not worsen with continued playing.

Poor technique is what will chew up a fingerboard pretty quickly. Guitar-style vibrato is the usual culprit - use cello-style vibrato instead.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

My Fretless Jazz Bass starts to have playing marks here and there on the fretboard but it is not much.
The bass is from 2008 LOL. It had round wounds for the past 18 years ahaha. You would have similar marks on frets after 18 years anyway.
 
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#34
Lots of good advice here! I'll just add a couple thoughts:

Mwah is often highly sought after by those new to fretless. It's a new realm of expression, so this is understandable. You should definitely explore it.

But It's not the be-all-end-all for most applications. Ideally it's something you could call up with the right technique and settings, and something that is not always apparent when you don't necessarily want it.

Switching away from the chromes, ideally to roundwounds and checking your setup as others have indicated is a quick way to get more of it.

But that said, Chromes are a great string to learn fretless on, my first fretless had them for a number of years and I think they are quite forgiving. They have enough top end to give you something to work with. I currently have a new-to-me J bass fretless with them, though I am thinking of changing to Sunbeams as one of the more forgiving round wound choices.

With Roundwounds I find that mwah will quickly become something you'll want to tame, and it will make intonation a little more tricky, or at least make it obvious when you are not exactly where you need to be. I recommend trying them at some point, but I would not be in a huge hurry if I were you.

But I also have several other fretless basses, wearing TI Jazz Flats, EB Cobalt flats, Nickel Rounds and GHS Pressurewounds. Personally I would always keep one bass with flats, but that's me. For me string choice is more important than bass choice as to which bass to bring to a session, to be honest. It is not a small issue!
 
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#36
Theres also something I haven't seen addressed here. It’s the actual bass.

Setups being equal, some instruments just “sing” more than others. And the differences can be dramatic. I’ve found Ebony or darker hard wood fingerboards will sing better than uncoated maple or other soft woods.(Not always, but many times) Maple is almost always finished in a Poly or harder coating, likely because it just sounds better. I’m assuming your Sire has a clear coat on the maple board.

In my last search I went thru close to a dozen fretless’s ( Warwick, Ibanez, Sadowsky China, SIre Z7, Fender Mexican, MM US Sterling, amongst others) with setups and strings that were all the same. Some sang well, some not. Ultimately, the overall best tone/mwah/bloom I could find was a new Sire V5-24. That bass is INCREDIBLE. Every note, even a single note, just plucked and held, is fantastic.

You’ve got some good advise here. Setup means ALOT. Technique will assist. But if that bass got no “singing tone” in it. You may find yourself frustrated.
 
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#37
Coming from my background as a Double Bassist, I would suggest first that you have the bass setup properly and I would suggest that you get a set o lf Ernie Ball Slinky Cobalt Flatwounds. The nefarious term MWAH at least for me equates to ye olde terms Attack, Sustain, Decay and Release. What I'm looking for is a pointed attack, longer sustain, with a quick decay and release. I cannot accomplish that on round wound strings, just my take however. Nylon coated strings when last I tried a set of Labella years ago, to my ears they have this weird nasal sound that just doesn't work my style of playing Roundwounds make some noise from note to note regardless of how careful I am positioning and shifting. Ernie Ball Slinky Cobalt Flats shift effortsly and sound incredible. One caveat I've never played on a fretless Maple fingerboard. I'm a Ebony Fretless player.
 
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#38
This is what I did for maximum mwah. Set neck relief almost flat, file nut slots down almost to the finger board, set action as low as possible, use round wound strings and pluck strings over the finger board. If you want more, coat the board. Some like using only the bridge pickup, but I use both leaning towards the bridge pickup a little.
 
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#40
everybody likes different strings, for different reasons of course. Jaco used Rotosound swing bass 46-63-80-102. I used those for a long time. switched to Ken Smith in 80's. 5 years ago or so I started using Elixer 45-100 on fretless. they are smooth but have a lot of tone and last very well.

FWIW in my personal experience MWAAH comes from low action and mostly playing near the heel of the neck.
 
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