When I was using the FC, I found I could get away with not using a preamp more so than with other pickups (e.g., I never use the Bass Max without a preamp)—however, a preamp still almost always improves the amplified sound of the bass. A preamp with HPF will reduce the exaggerated low frequencies that others have mentioned and make it easier to get a clean tone. Highly recommend the fdeck for this application.
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Double Bass Fishman Full Circle to replace my K&K Bass Max?
- Thread starter armybass
- Start date
When I was using the FC, I found I could get away with not using a preamp more so than with other pickups (e.g., I never use the Bass Max without a preamp)—however, a preamp still almost always improves the amplified sound of the bass. A preamp with HPF will reduce the exaggerated low frequencies that others have mentioned and make it easier to get a clean tone. Highly recommend the fdeck for this application.
Thanks - both amps have 1MegOhm input impedance. Much appreciated!
1MegOhms is useable, not optimal but not too bad. 5 To 10 MegOhms is better for the sound for the Full Circle.
But more important for the sound is the orientation of the pickup adjuster. There is a whole spectrum of sound in a quarter turn (in an eighth turn mirrored).
Much more important than the impedance between 1 and 10 MegOhms. Personally I have preferred the quieter position with the cable at the corner of the bridge foot.
But more important for the sound is the orientation of the pickup adjuster. There is a whole spectrum of sound in a quarter turn (in an eighth turn mirrored).
Much more important than the impedance between 1 and 10 MegOhms. Personally I have preferred the quieter position with the cable at the corner of the bridge foot.
Another thing you really have to watch with the FC is whether your bridge is staying vertical. If the portion of the bridge above the adjusters develops an angle relative to the section below, the loading on the piezo elements in the instrumented adjuster gets asymmetric and the pickup starts to lose gain and sound “off” 
. There’s good reasons to avoid this anyway but sometimes after repeated tunings I notice the angle problem via the FC oddities before I otherwise notice it’s become significant. [I should pay more attention.
] I suspect that neglect of this issue shortens the lifetime of the transducer.
. There’s good reasons to avoid this anyway but sometimes after repeated tunings I notice the angle problem via the FC oddities before I otherwise notice it’s become significant. [I should pay more attention.] I suspect that neglect of this issue shortens the lifetime of the transducer.Another thing you really have to watch with the FC is whether your bridge is staying vertical. If the portion of the bridge above the adjusters develops an angle relative to the section below, the loading on the piezo elements in the instrumented adjuster gets asymmetric and the pickup starts to lose gain and sound “off”
This is why I don’t have the Full Circle anymore
Obviously I went with the FC and I use the Fishman Platinum Pro Preamp into the PA or sometimes into the my smaller amp which is a AI. My “larger” amp is a Bergantino B Amp and it works great for me too.
I know a lot of folks say this, but my experience has been quite different. I bought a FC when they first came out (2005 maybe?) and it worked perfectly until last fall. I sent it back to Fishman to see if it was repairable and they sent me a brand new replacement. So it lasted roughly 14 years, and got replaced for the cost of a bench test plus shipping (around $60, I think). To me, that's a good life for a piezo pickup.That said, I wouldn't put a FC on a travel bass with a removable neck. The design won't hold up as well as a Lifeline for regular removal and re-installation.
For what it’s worth, I’ve used the FC on a travel bass for years. I got about 5 years out of mine with pretty heavy touring. The second one died much sooner, but it had a run in with a band mate clutzing around on stage. Fishmans bench fee and replacement policy has been very easy to deal with and has saved a bunch of money over buying new.
I’ve since ditched the afterlengths jack location and just zip-tied it to the tailpiece. If anyone steps on my cable now I just pops out—which is inconvenient and embarrassing, but also cheaper to fix.
I’ve found the FC to give me good results on my ply, the KNA (my spare) is my second fav. Either realist didn’t work well for me.
Since I have ebony adjusters on my Mirecourt Bass, the Full Circle isn't in the cards for me. I realize that it's one of the most commonly used pickups for Double Bass along with the Realist Lifeline. So
lots of players use the Full Circle and get the sound they want from their instruments. It's especially effective on laminated instruments, since the original Realists doesn't really since a laminated top.
Just my take of course.
P.S. on most basses any Piezo pickup will degrade under pressure from the bridge over time.
lots of players use the Full Circle and get the sound they want from their instruments. It's especially effective on laminated instruments, since the original Realists doesn't really since a laminated top.
Just my take of course.
P.S. on most basses any Piezo pickup will degrade under pressure from the bridge over time.
Has anyone considered or tried placing the Full Circle adjusters underneath existing adjusters, just snug up against them, so the existing adjusters take the tension stress and the piezos in the Full Circle adjusters aren't stressed?
How should that work? The Full Circle is an adjuster. It is either the traditional adjuster or the Full Circle. There is no way to take the pressure from the FC adjuster.
The Yamahiko has a different concept, it is not pressure sensitive but bending sensitive inside the adjuster axis.
The bridge wing pickups are pressure sensitive, but if applied correctly with low pressure in the steady state, it is only sensitive to deformation of the bridge due to the vibration of the string.
Bridge foot pickups have a large area where the pressure is applied. If the pressure is distributed equally, the pressure per area unit is relatively low, but a less than optimally fitted bridge foot or a wrong position or an angled bridge can destroy the equal pressure distribution, putting a large pressure on a small area of the piezo pickup which can degrade the quality of the (ceramic) piezo material.
This does not apply as much to synthetic piezo material (as in piezo foil pickups) as to the more common piezo ceramic pickups. Also the resonant frequencies of synthetic piezo material is much lower (and the internal damping of eigenfrequencies much higher) than with the commonly used piezoceramic material. Synthetic material also deforms easier to fit uneven surface, ceramic material might break if the deformation needed is too high.
Here's what I meant...
The normally threaded bridge hole could be drilled large enough to receive the full diameter of the 1/4x20 or 6mm axis threads and allow free up and down movement within, and a normal (or possibly re-threaded) adjuster wheel could be installed on the threaded axis ahead of the Full Circle to actually make adjustments and also to absorb the tension and protect the Full-Circle. This would then work similar to the way that adjusters work on many guitar and mandolin bridge and saddle assemblies.
From the Full Circle installation guide the pickup is described as “hot” on the flat face of the wheel -- on the side with the non-threaded post. The guide asserts that for proper performance the hot side of the pickup can have no gaps or voids where it is in contact the bridge.
From this description it is evident that direct tension against the "hot" flat face of the wheel could still be maintained with a normal adjuster wheel installed on the threaded axis, which could then reduce actual movement of the Full Circle pickup for making adjustments.
There may be other big concerns with trying this though, such as bridge wobble, etc. Mostly I was wondering if anyone had considered or tried this approach.
The normally threaded bridge hole could be drilled large enough to receive the full diameter of the 1/4x20 or 6mm axis threads and allow free up and down movement within, and a normal (or possibly re-threaded) adjuster wheel could be installed on the threaded axis ahead of the Full Circle to actually make adjustments and also to absorb the tension and protect the Full-Circle. This would then work similar to the way that adjusters work on many guitar and mandolin bridge and saddle assemblies.
From the Full Circle installation guide the pickup is described as “hot” on the flat face of the wheel -- on the side with the non-threaded post. The guide asserts that for proper performance the hot side of the pickup can have no gaps or voids where it is in contact the bridge.
From this description it is evident that direct tension against the "hot" flat face of the wheel could still be maintained with a normal adjuster wheel installed on the threaded axis, which could then reduce actual movement of the Full Circle pickup for making adjustments.
There may be other big concerns with trying this though, such as bridge wobble, etc. Mostly I was wondering if anyone had considered or tried this approach.
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I still don‘t understand it.
There are two possibilities:
Adjuster axis in line (one adjuster on top of the other, axis needs to be cut and adjusters glued together or something similar), but the adjuster still gets the same tension then,
or side by side: the normal adjuster takes the main tension and the parallel Full Circle could be dialed in to get as much as it needs to produce a signal. But this is not possible with a normal bridge and the adjusters are spaced too wide due to their diameter.
It would be a lot easier to replace a Full Circle with a single side Yamahiko which is the better design (piezo rod in the adjuster axis) and worth to pay a bit more because it should live a lot longer. If the FC works, a single side Yamahiko does as well, I have gone that way on my 5-string.
There are two possibilities:
Adjuster axis in line (one adjuster on top of the other, axis needs to be cut and adjusters glued together or something similar), but the adjuster still gets the same tension then,
or side by side: the normal adjuster takes the main tension and the parallel Full Circle could be dialed in to get as much as it needs to produce a signal. But this is not possible with a normal bridge and the adjusters are spaced too wide due to their diameter.
It would be a lot easier to replace a Full Circle with a single side Yamahiko which is the better design (piezo rod in the adjuster axis) and worth to pay a bit more because it should live a lot longer. If the FC works, a single side Yamahiko does as well, I have gone that way on my 5-string.
Okay, it took me a while, but I think I get it. @dhergert, you're suggesting taking the wheel from a two piece adjuster and threading it onto the FC to use for changing string height? Cool idea. I think that'll help prevent some situations where damage to the wire could occur, but won't change the issue of the crystal failing over time, due to pressure. It's a worthy consideration though. Cheers.
That's it! Sorry my description was so hard to get.
This solution would involve drilling the threads out of the threaded hole of the bridge though, so the threaded axis could move freely through the hole as the old wheel is adjusted. And that could contribute to bridge wobble (I've seen wobble happen with adjustable mandolin bridges which use the same concept).
I think possibly the better idea for a person thinking of going this direction for longevity of the pickup is simply to get a Yamahiko as @DoubleMIDI has suggested.
This solution would involve drilling the threads out of the threaded hole of the bridge though, so the threaded axis could move freely through the hole as the old wheel is adjusted. And that could contribute to bridge wobble (I've seen wobble happen with adjustable mandolin bridges which use the same concept).
I think possibly the better idea for a person thinking of going this direction for longevity of the pickup is simply to get a Yamahiko as @DoubleMIDI has suggested.
Now I got it too. The axis of one adjuster has to be removed, a hole drilled to the disc at the center and a thread made to put it on the FC axis thread.
But it won’t work (at least not well) or doesn’t make a difference to the problem of high pressure on the crystals as bassmanbrent said before.
I had the FC for a few years, but once dialed in, I didn’t change anything (maybe not so easy with a larger climate swing than in Europe).
I never had a problem with the cable, but I always removed the RCA plug before a larger adjustment. For dialing in the best sound a quarter turn is more than enough, no need to pull the plug for that.
Anyway, also in this respect the Yamahiko is the better design with a cable that screws onto the adjuster.
No, my thought was leave the FC unchanged, but add an old-style adjuster wheel on the threaded FC axis thread, that then would actually make the action adjustments instead of using the FC wheel to do it. But as mentioned earlier the hole in the bridge that receives the threaded FC axis threads would have to be drilled out so the axis would move smoothly as the old adjuster wheel is turned. And that could be more problematic than the value of making the change.
Again, though, a moot point probably. I agree about the Yamahiko design. Does the Yamahiko sound better than the FC?
I think I got the concept, but a picture is worth thousand words... even a phone snap of a sketch on a napkin! 
If you add an adjuster disc on the thread side of the FC you still have the same contact on the sensitive side of the FC because that side is unthreaded. If you make a thread on the originally untreated axis to put the adjuster disc there, you loose the contact with the sensitive side. Might still work but a lot quieter and not adjustable in sound. And you still have the full pressure on the adjuster axis that still might transfer most of it to the crystals.
