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Flatwound help

green3101

green3101

Aug 31, 2016
434
311
London
#1
Hi everyone,

Was hoping that someone could lend some advice on flatwound strings.

I’ve mostly been a rounds player since I started playing, but wanted to explore something a bit different.

I’m primarily a rock player, finger style mostly but will use a pick when needed.

I recently acquired a new Fender American Professional II bass and strung it up with some Ernie Ball slinkys (light gauge). They sound fine, but some of my favourite bass tones on classic albums that I love, I realised were actually Flatwounds.

Because I play mostly rock I wanted to ask for people’s opinions/advice on what the best strings to try out would be? I’d like that Flatwound sound, but still with some growl and midrange punch.

a good reference point would be one of my favourite bassists; John Deacon. After some research, it appears he used Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. I’m very close to ordering them and giving them a go, to try and get me closer to what I’m hearing (I realise a lot comes from your own playing, but string/bass/amp sound choices will get you closer to what you desire - the rest is on you). I just had a couple of questions:-

I hear these strings are high tension - which is fine, but do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all? I wouldn’t want to do that obviously. It feels amazing to play and was quite an investment I saved for. I’d hate to do any lasting damage. I like my action as low as possible - I’m not big on string tension knowledge, but do these strings allow that, without any lasting damage to the neck?

How are the strings on the frets overtime? I know they are flats but thought I’d ask

I’ve read they have good midrange presence, which is something I’m after. Is this typical of all flats? (I’m not interested in anything with a mid-scoop). Are there any other brands of flats that offer good mids?

if anyone else has any experience with these strings? I’d be very grateful of any info or advice.

finally, if anyone else has any recommendations when it comes to flats and fitting what I’m after?
 
#2
I have not heard that flatwounds are, in general, higher tension than rounds. I go back and forth between D'Addario NYXL (45-105) and Fender 9050L flats (45-100) with no noticeable difference in tension. Tension is a function of unit-weight of the string, scale length, and tuning frequency. There is some variation but for similar gauge stings, flats and round have similar unit-weight and will have similar tension. And of course most flatwound string makers have a range of gauge available to choose from if you want to make adjustments to the tension. But I don't think there's any risk of damaging your bass or neck by putting on flats with a similar gauge to the rounds you are using now.

I have wavered back and forth on flats and am taking another shot at trying to decide if I like them on my Yamaha PJ. I have learned that you can get such a wide range of sounds with 2 pick-ups and tone control that it really takes some recording work and listening to find sweet spots. I think I'm starting to come around to these flats (9050Ls). My experience is very limited so I can't make recommendations on what you should try. Have fun and good luck!
 
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#3
green3101 said:
Because I play mostly rock I wanted to ask for people’s opinions/advice on what the best strings to try out would be? I’d like that Flatwound sound, but still with some growl and midrange punch.
Click to expand...

For "growl and midrange punch", Fender 9050L (45-100) would be a good place to start.


green3101 said:
a good reference point would be one of my favourite bassists; John Deacon. After some research, it appears he used Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. I’m very close to ordering them and giving them a go, to try and get me closer to what I’m hearing (I realise a lot comes from your own playing, but string/bass/amp sound choices will get you closer to what you desire - the rest is on you). I just had a couple of questions:-

I hear these strings are high tension - which is fine, but do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all?
Click to expand...

Since you're based in London (assuming England), Rotosound Jazz 77 Flats would be a good choice for you.

Start with the light set 40-100 and go from there. At 178.57 lbs. in total tension, they're comparable to a typical 45-105 roundwound set. Once you go up to the 45-105 set, however, the total tension jumps to 214.41 lbs., not to mention increased stiffness.
 
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#4
I had Rotosound flats on a semi-hollow, and I thought the combination made a great “upright” sound. Not sure how they’d work for rock. I think they’re cheap enough to give them a shot on your bass. My $.02 on other flats I’ve tried (I’m thinking Chromes or the Ernie Ball flats for what you’re describing):

TI Flats: expensive, but as everyone said -- they'll last a decade. I have them on two Precisions. Made my vintage '75 P immediately sound awesome. They aren't floppy (to my setups) like everyone warned. In fact, I wouldn't have thought anything if I hadn't read that on TB. They can still have a growl to them, and in an R&B/gospel gig that I got recruited to -- my bass sounded great in the mix. Maybe it's herd mentality -- but with so many people endorsing them (and their fair share of detractors), I feel like there's got to be something to it. I feel like I put the "best" on my bass and can set it and forget it.

Chromes: I like them. They start out very metallic-y, and within a month, that goes away. Brightness also diminishes over time. Where they start and end up are not the same. Can't go wrong with these, including price.

GHS Precision: they've been called "chocolatey." I agree, if you had to describe their tone in food terms. I'd say it's a dark tone. I really liked them. They sounded nice, but kind of a one-trick pony. If you were playing Motown, I'd say all day long on these. For the artists you mentioned -- I think the above sets are better. I took them off due to the lack of range in sound -- too dark (but awesome if you want that).

Labella 760: In fairness, I have these on a new American Mustang. I love the feel and the sound. They sound really woody on my Mustang (surprisingly so). Not sure how they would be on my P. Let's put it this way, if I didn't already have the TI's on my P, these would be purchased to see the effect. They are really nice, and price is reasonable.

Ernie Ball Cobalt: TB'ers rave about these as the closest flat to a round. I usually don't like bright, so I shy away from this type. However, I assembled a fretless P bass that was not giving enough "mwah" to my ears -- so I took the TI's off and put these on. A little better in the mwah department -- but jury is still out. Can't say I love them. They did what I wanted them to do. They still have quite a metallic zing to them after a month or so -- maybe that's the comparison to rounds everyone says. If you love your rounds, these may be something to try.
 
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#5
There are many good choices to be made with flatwound strings. If you're already inclined toward Rotosounds, there's no reason not to choose those. I use them and think they're excellent. The RS77 set (.45-.105) are as advertised fairly stiff/high tension though neither I nor my Fenders have an issue with them and they have a classic tone (Waters, Sting, Deacon, etc.) I'm currently using the SM77 set (.40-.100) on my Tony Franklin fretless and prefer them to the heavier RS77s on that bass, more flexible and amenable to soloing the bridge pickup.

New, the Rotos are quite bright but tame down fairly fast with use with plenty (for me) midrange throughout their life and lots of lows. In my experience, they last a long time before starting to sound a bit dead (and some like that). The monel wrap on the Roto flats is a little more "abrasive" perhaps than other smoother flats, but I would not worry a moment about fret wear. I'm a finger-only player but I think they'd sound great with a pick. Fender 9050s are excellent too, I'm also using those on another bass as well as TI Jazz Flats and Chromes. As always, a lot depends on the specific bass and the tone you're after.
 
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#7
Thanks so much for all the feedback guys, really appreciate it. Think I might try out the rotos!

one example I forgot to mention as it’s a sound I love and think could be grouped in with this (and I’m pretty sure it’s flats, played by Dale Peters) is; Funk #49 by James Gang. Think the Rotos will get me in that sort of ball park, rolling off the tone knob a bit maybe?
 
#9
skycruiser said:
I have not heard that flatwounds are, in general, higher tension than rounds. I go back and forth between D'Addario NYXL (45-105) and Fender 9050L flats (45-100) with no noticeable difference in tension. Tension is a function of unit-weight of the string, scale length, and tuning frequency. There is some variation but for similar gauge stings, flats and round have similar unit-weight and will have similar tension. And of course most flatwound string makers have a range of gauge available to choose from if you want to make adjustments to the tension. But I don't think there's any risk of damaging your bass or neck by putting on flats with a similar gauge to the rounds you are using now.

I have wavered back and forth on flats and am taking another shot at trying to decide if I like them on my Yamaha PJ. I have learned that you can get such a wide range of sounds with 2 pick-ups and tone control that it really takes some recording work and listening to find sweet spots. I think I'm starting to come around to these flats (9050Ls). My experience is very limited so I can't make recommendations on what you should try. Have fun and good luck!
Click to expand...

There is no direct correlation between the tension of flats and the tension of rounds of the same diameter. It all depends on the construction. Tension is a function of mass of the speaking length, with a given scale length and pitch. Flats are usually higher tension because the ribbon wrap reduces the space between the windings that rounds have, which means there is more mass in the given diameter.

This is independent of feel. Feel is more a function of flexibility of the string. Some flats are as stiff as bailing wire; others are as floppy as rounds. So two strings can have the same mass and therefore the same tension at a given scale length and pitch, but due to the manner of construction could feel completely different.

As above, most quality bass guitars have sufficient construction and truss rods that any reasonable set of whatever make, model, and gauge of strings will work, given a tweak of the setup.

My experiences with flats:

Fender - growly mids
EB Stainless - slightly growly mids
DR - round tone that tends to fade
Chromes - start zingy, fade to worthless thump
TI - as loose as rubber bands and inconsistent in feel and tone, especially the A string
Cobalts - grindy, die a little sooner than other flats
La Bella - neutral, long-lasting, feel smooth, a standard for many traditional styles
- the LTF's are truly "La Bella Light" in both tension and a little lighter in tone. Players either love them or hate them. I like them.
GHS - Chocolate is a good description. I would use them on a Gibson EB3 bass.
 
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#10
iiipopes said:
There is no direct correlation between the tension of flats and the tension of rounds of the same diameter. It all depends on the construction. Tension is a function of mass of the speaking length, with a given scale length and pitch. Flats are usually higher tension because the ribbon wrap reduces the space between the windings that rounds have, which means there is more mass in the given diameter.

This is independent of feel. Feel is more a function of flexibility of the string. Some flats are as stiff as bailing wire; others are as floppy as rounds. So two strings can have the same mass and therefore the same tension at a given scale length and pitch, but due to the manner of construction could feel completely different.

As above, most quality bass guitars have sufficient construction and truss rods that any reasonable set of whatever make, model, and gauge of strings will work, given a tweak of the setup.

My experiences with flats:

Fender - growly mids
EB Stainless - slightly growly mids
DR - round tone that tends to fade
Chromes - start zingy, fade to worthless thump
TI - as loose as rubber bands and inconsistent in feel and tone, especially the A string
Cobalts - grindy, die a little sooner than other flats
La Bella - neutral, long-lasting, feel smooth, a standard for many traditional styles
- the LTF's are truly "La Bella Light" in both tension and a little lighter in tone. Players either love them or hate them. I like them.
GHS - Chocolate is a good description. I would use them on a Gibson EB3 bass.
Click to expand...

Thanks! this is a great rundown!

I assume you've had no experience with the Rotos?
 
#12
green3101 said:
Hi everyone,

Was hoping that someone could lend some advice on flatwound strings.

I’ve mostly been a rounds player since I started playing, but wanted to explore something a bit different.

I’m primarily a rock player, finger style mostly but will use a pick when needed.

I recently acquired a new Fender American Professional II bass and strung it up with some Ernie Ball slinkys (light gauge). They sound fine, but some of my favourite bass tones on classic albums that I love, I realised were actually Flatwounds.

Because I play mostly rock I wanted to ask for people’s opinions/advice on what the best strings to try out would be? I’d like that Flatwound sound, but still with some growl and midrange punch.

a good reference point would be one of my favourite bassists; John Deacon. After some research, it appears he used Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. I’m very close to ordering them and giving them a go, to try and get me closer to what I’m hearing (I realise a lot comes from your own playing, but string/bass/amp sound choices will get you closer to what you desire - the rest is on you). I just had a couple of questions:-

I hear these strings are high tension - which is fine, but do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all? I wouldn’t want to do that obviously. It feels amazing to play and was quite an investment I saved for. I’d hate to do any lasting damage. I like my action as low as possible - I’m not big on string tension knowledge, but do these strings allow that, without any lasting damage to the neck?

How are the strings on the frets overtime? I know they are flats but thought I’d ask

I’ve read they have good midrange presence, which is something I’m after. Is this typical of all flats? (I’m not interested in anything with a mid-scoop). Are there any other brands of flats that offer good mids?

if anyone else has any experience with these strings? I’d be very grateful of any info or advice.

finally, if anyone else has any recommendations when it comes to flats and fitting what I’m after?
Click to expand...
Rotosound flatts sound good but they are high tension. A good flat with slightly less tension is Fender. Fenders sound brite out of the box but mellow and last a long time. GHS flatts are less brite than fenders and less tension they also sound good. I like T.I. Flatts and find the tension fine, I have a light touch the issue for most people is price. You can find them on Amazon at times for a reduced price.
 
Last edited:
#13
green3101 said:
do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all? I wouldn’t want to do that obviously. It feels amazing to play and was quite an investment I saved for. I’d hate to do any lasting damage.

do these strings allow that [action as low as possible], without any lasting damage to the neck?

How are the strings on the frets overtime?
Click to expand...
I don't think you need to worry about any strings damaging your neck or frets. You may have to do another setup if strings have a different amount of tension than what you're using now, but that's easy enough to do yourself or have someone make the adjustments.
 
#15
green3101 said:
Hi everyone,

Was hoping that someone could lend some advice on flatwound strings.

I’ve mostly been a rounds player since I started playing, but wanted to explore something a bit different.

I’m primarily a rock player, finger style mostly but will use a pick when needed.

I recently acquired a new Fender American Professional II bass and strung it up with some Ernie Ball slinkys (light gauge). They sound fine, but some of my favourite bass tones on classic albums that I love, I realised were actually Flatwounds.

Because I play mostly rock I wanted to ask for people’s opinions/advice on what the best strings to try out would be? I’d like that Flatwound sound, but still with some growl and midrange punch.

a good reference point would be one of my favourite bassists; John Deacon. After some research, it appears he used Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. I’m very close to ordering them and giving them a go, to try and get me closer to what I’m hearing (I realise a lot comes from your own playing, but string/bass/amp sound choices will get you closer to what you desire - the rest is on you). I just had a couple of questions:-

I hear these strings are high tension - which is fine, but do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all? I wouldn’t want to do that obviously. It feels amazing to play and was quite an investment I saved for. I’d hate to do any lasting damage. I like my action as low as possible - I’m not big on string tension knowledge, but do these strings allow that, without any lasting damage to the neck?

How are the strings on the frets overtime? I know they are flats but thought I’d ask

I’ve read they have good midrange presence, which is something I’m after. Is this typical of all flats? (I’m not interested in anything with a mid-scoop). Are there any other brands of flats that offer good mids?

if anyone else has any experience with these strings? I’d be very grateful of any info or advice.

finally, if anyone else has any recommendations when it comes to flats and fitting what I’m after?
Click to expand...
I use LaBella Deep Talking Bass White Tape Wound strings on my '82 MIA passive Jazz Bass. They are actually semi-opaque and you can tell there's a silver-looking core under the tape. I originally played with flat wounds on my '65 Jazz from 1966 until ~1972, when I went to Fender Black Tape Wounds. That bass was stolen from in early in 1976 and I didn't replace it with my current bass until 1985. My '82 came with Dean Markley - Blue Steel round wounds on it. I replaced them a couple of times and then I changed to DR Black Beauty Strings before I bought these. So I used only round-wound strings for about 32 years. Wore those out and saw a string comparison that piqued my interest in the LaBella Tape Wounds. Bought a set at the TB store and have played them for about 3-years now.

I love the sound of them. They are brighter than other flat wounds I've played but not as bright as most round wounds. They have a great balance from string to string so if it's more convenient to finger a note on the next string instead of sliding up the neck on the string you're on, it's no problem. That note doesn't sound weak or thin like it often does with round wounds. They also come in Black tape, white tape over copper core, and white tape over gold. Black tape is the deepest sounding of the bunch and the copper core and gold core are in between the Black and the White tape-wound.

I'm not sure you'll get the really old school sound out of them because they do have some nice upper harmonics, but I love the sound of them and highly recommend them. You might want to try the Black Tape Wound LaBella strings if you want fewer upper harmonics.
 
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#16
green3101 said:
Hi everyone,

Was hoping that someone could lend some advice on flatwound strings.

I’ve mostly been a rounds player since I started playing, but wanted to explore something a bit different.

I’m primarily a rock player, finger style mostly but will use a pick when needed.

I recently acquired a new Fender American Professional II bass and strung it up with some Ernie Ball slinkys (light gauge). They sound fine, but some of my favourite bass tones on classic albums that I love, I realised were actually Flatwounds.

Because I play mostly rock I wanted to ask for people’s opinions/advice on what the best strings to try out would be? I’d like that Flatwound sound, but still with some growl and midrange punch.

a good reference point would be one of my favourite bassists; John Deacon. After some research, it appears he used Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. I’m very close to ordering them and giving them a go, to try and get me closer to what I’m hearing (I realise a lot comes from your own playing, but string/bass/amp sound choices will get you closer to what you desire - the rest is on you). I just had a couple of questions:-

I hear these strings are high tension - which is fine, but do I need to worry about them harming the neck of my new bass at all? I wouldn’t want to do that obviously. It feels amazing to play and was quite an investment I saved for. I’d hate to do any lasting damage. I like my action as low as possible - I’m not big on string tension knowledge, but do these strings allow that, without any lasting damage to the neck?

How are the strings on the frets overtime? I know they are flats but thought I’d ask

I’ve read they have good midrange presence, which is something I’m after. Is this typical of all flats? (I’m not interested in anything with a mid-scoop). Are there any other brands of flats that offer good mids?

if anyone else has any experience with these strings? I’d be very grateful of any info or advice.

finally, if anyone else has any recommendations when it comes to flats and fitting what I’m after?
Click to expand...
Good luck with your quest - some great advice already.

It does sound like you're keen to try out the Rotosounds, and I'd say "go for it" and let us all know how they work for you.
I have yet to try those (and Labellas) but out of the range of other mainstream flats I have tried, Dunlop lights 40-100 offer the best mid range response of any (to my ears). They are also very finger friendly for touch and tone shaping.
Put simply, a joy to use.
 
#17
Thanks for all the input and suggestions guys!

seems to be a lot of split opinions on certain strings, particularly the rotos

I thought I’d give them a try though and ordered some. I’m going to get the bass set-up by a tech I trust when installing the strings.
 
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#18
I have only tried labella flats, ebmm cobalt flats and rotosound 77 flats

I love the labellas for that Motown low end thump. I love the cobalt flats on my stingray. They just have a sound that needs to be heard.

both of those feel great. The rotosounds were filthy and left my maple neck full of black dust. I was forced to boil them clean and never used them after that first day. They felt like rounds but sounded dead. And dead for flats is like death for a dead person. If you catch my meaning. I’m not sure what the deal was with them but buying dirty dead strings is a turn off.
 

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