Flatwounds on a J Bass - overall thoughts and experiences?

[Paul New]

"Flats on a Jazz with a pick?"

View attachment 7228142

And David Hood of Fame played on a ton of hits with his flatwound-strung Jazz.

In an interview David said that after his early 60s Jazz was stolen, he replaced it with a pair of early 70s Jazzes, but said he could never get those to sound as good as the 60s bass.

Later, the interviewer asked what king of strings he played, and he said, "I dunno, whatever came on them".

 

[antfarm]

Post in thread 'Flatwounds on a Jazz Bass'

Dec 20, 2024

There was a time when all Jazz Basses came with flatwounds and it's my favorite combination.

Famous players include Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones, David Hood (e.g. with The Staple Singers on I'll Take You There) or Joseph Lucky Scott (on Curtis Mayfield's Superfly).

• antfarm

• 
• 

 

[HaphAsSard]

rounds didn't exist.

That's the internet vulgate: Fender only had one bass-guitar string set before 1959, the No. 90 Pure Nickel Wrap, and it was roundwound. Danelectro basses also wore rounds, made by Black Diamond.

So the Jazz was really designed with flats in mind

This much is probably true: 1959 saw the introduction to the first Fender Mastersound Flatwound set, the No. 80, which, either right off the bat or soon after, did become the stock string complement for Fender basses from the factory.

I recall an anecdote (don't know how true it is) that John Entwistle loved roundwounds but at the time the only sets available in England were the ones that Danelectro installed on their basses in the factory, so for a while he was buying a new Dano bass every time he needed a fresh set of strings

Rotosound introduced round wounds in 1962. The WHO's first hit was 3 years after that. He may have done that a couple times, but he didn't have to do it for too long. Entwistle was involved with Rotosound early on; he ay have had prototype round wound strings before they were introduced.

Rotosound introduced *their* roundwounds (both Fender and Danelectro basses came with rounds back in the Fifties, as I said) in 1962, but to no fanfare – they did surface in black nylon tapewound form that early, sold under the Burns of London brand – and they certainly weren't available on Denmark Street when Entwistle, smitten by his first Danelectro and its stock roundwounds, went looking for a replacement for the string he'd broken during the "My Generation" sessions. The only solution was buying another Longhorn, and another after he broke one string of the latter, and another one after that, same story. The store having run out of Danos to sell him, he ended up using La Bella flats (he called them "tapewounds" as was usual in the UK back then) on a Jazz Bass for the final recording. [See? We're back on-topic!]
Shortly after (late '65), he contacted James How, toured the Roto plant, tried the stainless-steel rounds they already made, and had them tweak the core-to-wrap ratio for the lower half of the soon-to-become Swing Bass set, which he endorsed when it came out in 1966.

 

[petermwright]

I've always been a roundwound player, mostly because 1: that's what all the basses I've ever bought have shipped with, and 2: because I like plenty of treble in my sound, whatever the bass.

With that said, one bass tone I've always loved and craved is Paul McCartney's late-years Beatles tone (from '66 onwards) - think "With A Little Help From My Friends", or "Something", that really full and rounded tone that sounds so beautiful and punches through the mix. I know there were a lot of factors behind that tone, including his switch to a Rickenbacker 4001 (at first), and, perhaps more significantly, changes to the recording techniques used as he chased a more Motown sound. I'm also aware that he probably used flats on his Rick. I know he also used a Jazz Bass in the later Beatles years, but I'm not sure what sort of strings he used on it, or which songs exactly he used it on, and searches have thrown up conflicting answers.

Anyway, I have a Squier Paranormal Jazz '54, which currently serves me primarily as a back-up gig bass, but also as a live bass on a single song my band plays that needs a really trebly tone that my Squier Rascal can't quite reach. I play with a pick, and achieve this tone by using the bridge pickup, tone at 100%, and EQing to cut the mids and boost the treble and bass. I do also sometimes use it for funky pick-played basslines too, in an Andy Rourke (The Smiths) vein, with a balanced EQ and both pickups at 100% tone.

I've thought about experimenting with flats, and this seems to me the ideal bass in my line-up to try them on, but there are two main questions I have before taking the plunge (and spending money on potentially two sets of strings if I don't like the results):

1: Would flats on a Jazz help me get close(r) to that post-'66 McCartney tone?

2: Would flats completely get rid of that absolute maximum J Bass treble, or just alter it a little?

Any tips or experiences from any J Bass flats users would be hugely appreciated!

1. Yes.
2. No, just alter it.

Have a listen to the trebly bass parts on songs like Glass Onion, and a few others on The White Album. A Jazz with flats, and all 3 controls up full gets you that sound. I don't know exactly which strings McCartney used, there has been much talk about it, and I'm not sure what the truth is - but I do know that with The Beatles, it was all flats. He didn't move to round wounds until much later, after the band split.

I've been down this road, I have a Beatles-themed Jazz (I posted about it a couple of months ago), which I intended to get a McCartney-like tone. Here's what I found:

1. For the most part, using neck pickup only, palm muted, tone control rolled off quite a bit, played with a soft pick, gets you a pretty good 1967-era sound (e.g. Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, All You Need Is Love), and is also pretty decent for Something and Come Together, for instance.
2. With A Little Help From My Friends is a funny one, it's muted (presumably with the bridge mutes in the Rick 4001 rather than his palm), but a much more trebly sound than Getting Better, and those other Sgt Pepper era ones I mentioned. I can get something fairly close to this by turning the tone control up a bit more (but not full, necessarily). For this song in particular, using a soft pick instead of a hard one makes a big difference, I think.
3. All 3 controls on full, and no palm muting, nails that trebly White Album sound.
4. Wiring the pickups in series makes the sound fatter, and IMHO, better for the McCartney tone. This is how I have this bass wired. With this configuration, I mostly play it with both pickups on full, instead of soloing the neck pickup.

EDIT: one other thing, the pickups make a difference of course. Mine are wound to the spec of Seymour Duncan Antiquity, so vintage'60s spec basically. This definitely makes a difference - modern Jazz pickups might not get you quite the same sound. Particularly when you turn the tone up full.

Hope this helps.

 

[bassdog]

Flats are great on a J, but sometimes one wants rounds on the J. I switch around some between flats on my P and rounds on the J.

 

[michael_t]

Flats are great on a J, but sometimes one wants rounds on the J. I switch around some between flats on my P and rounds on the J.

This is why I keep three J's around - one with flats, one with rounds and one with rollerwounds (= pressurewound). Three different flavors of the J goodness.

As for my one and only P, it's wearing the GHS Pressurewound for something between flats and rounds.

 

[Eikari]

I've always been a roundwound player, mostly because 1: that's what all the basses I've ever bought have shipped with, and 2: because I like plenty of treble in my sound, whatever the bass.

With that said, one bass tone I've always loved and craved is Paul McCartney's late-years Beatles tone (from '66 onwards) - think "With A Little Help From My Friends", or "Something", that really full and rounded tone that sounds so beautiful and punches through the mix. I know there were a lot of factors behind that tone, including his switch to a Rickenbacker 4001 (at first), and, perhaps more significantly, changes to the recording techniques used as he chased a more Motown sound. I'm also aware that he probably used flats on his Rick. I know he also used a Jazz Bass in the later Beatles years, but I'm not sure what sort of strings he used on it, or which songs exactly he used it on, and searches have thrown up conflicting answers.

Anyway, I have a Squier Paranormal Jazz '54, which currently serves me primarily as a back-up gig bass, but also as a live bass on a single song my band plays that needs a really trebly tone that my Squier Rascal can't quite reach. I play with a pick, and achieve this tone by using the bridge pickup, tone at 100%, and EQing to cut the mids and boost the treble and bass. I do also sometimes use it for funky pick-played basslines too, in an Andy Rourke (The Smiths) vein, with a balanced EQ and both pickups at 100% tone.

I've thought about experimenting with flats, and this seems to me the ideal bass in my line-up to try them on, but there are two main questions I have before taking the plunge (and spending money on potentially two sets of strings if I don't like the results):

1: Would flats on a Jazz help me get close(r) to that post-'66 McCartney tone?

2: Would flats completely get rid of that absolute maximum J Bass treble, or just alter it a little?

Any tips or experiences from any J Bass flats users would be hugely appreciated!

Youre just overthinking this. I bought TI Jazz flats for my jazz bass and never looked back. Think they are from 2016. Still sound amazing and i haven´t purchased any strings for my JB since then.

 

[bass.slinger]

Nope. But I belong to the Chris Squire, John Enwistle, Geddy Lee school of tone.

 

[Geogio]

I run LaBella flats on everything. It just sort of happened that way, but I've been through different brands... Fender I used for years but… on the AmPro II... it's a through body and so I noticed that a regular set of flats the ribbon was starting to kink around the bridge rollers on the heavy's , which was a .110 Labella "Jamerson" gauge, so LaBella had come up with a thru base version that was silked on both ends with the core exposed on either side to relieve the stress on the wrap. I'm pretty happy with those. I have noticed that the tension overall increased, whereas I usually don't even take note of tension because I grew up on a high school doghouse and that was very rigorous to say the least so tension is barely noticeable at all for me because of that industrial boot camp bass that I played all through HS orchestra...

 

[e-flat]

I've really come to prefer flats (or tapes) on a Jazz as I find myself fighting the highs / harmonic content of rounds with the sounds I'm after these days.

Flats on a Jazz let the fundamental dominate and (IMO) bring a needed focus , especially to the "both pickups up full" tone which I use almost all the time.

I love TIs (good if you want to fill the mids in), but really gravitate toward more traditional flats for a Jazz these days. My all-time favorite flat for Jazz is the Dogal Traditional set: they're clear and subtle and rich with a moderate output. My only Jazz these days is a stack-knob build with ash body / ebony board and a custom low output A2 / A3 set of pickups from Q Pickups. ^^^ This recipe makes for a really beautiful sound.

La Bella LTF and GHS Precision flats are great on a Jazz as well.

When I need the "Jazz with rounds" tone, I usually throw on a set of DR Sunbeams. This was my setup for rock for 20ish years.

 

[deepestend]

You really have to find the right strings for your particular bass… i went through about 5 sets before I settled on the La Bella's. It's personal.

 

[Yahboy]

I've always been a roundwound player, mostly because 1: that's what all the basses I've ever bought have shipped with, and 2: because I like plenty of treble in my sound, whatever the bass.

With that said, one bass tone I've always loved and craved is Paul McCartney's late-years Beatles tone (from '66 onwards) - think "With A Little Help From My Friends", or "Something", that really full and rounded tone that sounds so beautiful and punches through the mix. I know there were a lot of factors behind that tone, including his switch to a Rickenbacker 4001 (at first), and, perhaps more significantly, changes to the recording techniques used as he chased a more Motown sound. I'm also aware that he probably used flats on his Rick. I know he also used a Jazz Bass in the later Beatles years, but I'm not sure what sort of strings he used on it, or which songs exactly he used it on, and searches have thrown up conflicting answers.

Anyway, I have a Squier Paranormal Jazz '54, which currently serves me primarily as a back-up gig bass, but also as a live bass on a single song my band plays that needs a really trebly tone that my Squier Rascal can't quite reach. I play with a pick, and achieve this tone by using the bridge pickup, tone at 100%, and EQing to cut the mids and boost the treble and bass. I do also sometimes use it for funky pick-played basslines too, in an Andy Rourke (The Smiths) vein, with a balanced EQ and both pickups at 100% tone.

I've thought about experimenting with flats, and this seems to me the ideal bass in my line-up to try them on, but there are two main questions I have before taking the plunge (and spending money on potentially two sets of strings if I don't like the results):

1: Would flats on a Jazz help me get close(r) to that post-'66 McCartney tone?

2: Would flats completely get rid of that absolute maximum J Bass treble, or just alter it a little?

Any tips or experiences from any J Bass flats users would be hugely appreciated!

I been use Fender 9050L, Ti flat on my JAzz bass, but finally settle with EB Cobalt flat .

 

[BigJohnAZ]

"Flats on a Jazz with a pick?"

View attachment 7228142

You beat me to it. That's why I bought my Squier. I LOVE Joe's tone.

 

[pfschim]

well, I'll swim against the current just a bit and suggest that you can get a very old school, flatwound kind of tone if you let certain rounds age.
I have an 8 year old set of DR Sunbeams on a Lull M4V and they sound outstanding .... and very reminiscent of flatwound tone.

The DR's are pretty mellow rounds to begin with; round core, nickel wrap etc., and they age beautifully too.

so, the point ? you can get a tone thats in the ballpark of rounds on a J by wearing out a mellow set of rounds. But it does take a bit of time/use and patience.

 

[L-u-A-R]

"With A Little Help From My Friends", or "Something"

Because you mention "Something"...
When I was learning it, there was always something I was missing.
I don't have a Rick, but yes, flats got me closer - used TIs

That said, the thing that really made a difference was the pick.
A veld pick will probably help get you closer to the tone from "Something".
You could also try leather or rubber. I went with leather in the end.

There's a YouTube channel that does excellent reproductions Beatles guitar and Bass parts.
Their take of "Something" is using a Rick with flats (Rotosound 77?) and probably a veld pick:


May be worth checking some other Bass videos on that channel to get ideas for the tone you're looking for.

 

[Billyears IV]

I had flats on a MIM Jazz for a couple of years, to try and get a deeper motown type sound. That phase passed but I didn't get round to changing them to rounds when I was playing in alt rock bands.
Used to get frustrated with not cutting through the mix. Didn't think at the time it could be the strings.
Shock when I did go back to rounds with extra tonal range & bite. Plus the flats had been too high tension - trickier to play.

So flats on the Jazz were both niche and restrictive imhe.

 

[Bortron]

Thanks for all the replies, I've tried to read them all and I'll certainly take it all on board. I've got a gig coming up in a couple of weeks where I may well need my J Bass, but after that I'll probably change it up to flats and see how it sounds.

I'm still undecided on whether to go for a brighter flat like the Ernie Ball Chromes, or something more vintage-sounding like the LaBellas, but I'll mull it over.

And long-term, my plan is to win the lottery and get a Rick with flats. Can't fail.

 

[McCall89]

Hell yeah, I but some ernie ball stainless steel flats on my Adam Clayton sig jazz. Kinda looking for that Jerry Jemmott tone on those B.B. King albums

 

[petermwright]

Because you mention "Something"...
When I was learning it, there was always something I was missing.
I don't have a Rick, but yes, flats got me closer - used TIs

That said, the thing that really made a difference was the pick.
A veld pick will probably help get you closer to the tone from "Something".
You could also try leather or rubber. I went with leather in the end.

There's a YouTube channel that does excellent reproductions Beatles guitar and Bass parts.
Their take of "Something" is using a Rick with flats (Rotosound 77?) and probably a veld pick:


May be worth checking some other Bass videos on that channel to get ideas for the tone you're looking for.

What is a veld pick? Googling and not finding anything.

 

[FRoss6788]

What is a veld pick? Googling and not finding anything.

Felt pick?

I dunno.......