Flooring Ideas?

[two fingers]

I didn't even look and I know this one. Awesome.

On topic, I hate laminate. It looks great for about a year, after which it will begin raising at the seams from spills & moisture- especially if you have kids and/or a pool(if you have both, underline everything I just said).

I've had a GREAT experience with mine. You just have to glue the joints for wet locations. That being said, if you put down concrete board before doing tile, you should be fine even if the sub floor gives a little. And tile is not that hard to do. My buddy and I are idiots and we put it in several of his rental units. Once you get the hang of CUTTING them, it's a snap to do. My only advice is RENT a NICE tile cutter rather than BUYING a cheap one. There's a HUGE difference. Best of luck!

 

[iamlowsound]

On the shelves, of course



We also did a tile floor in the kitchen. In the downstairs hallway, it was cement, so we just put the tile right down. In the kitchen, we put down hardibacker. Why? Not sure exactly, my father insisted we use it, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say it's for 2 reasons.

First, the adjacent rooms all got 3/4" solid hardwood floors. The tile on top of the hardibacker came out to the same level as the hardwood floors, so we didn't need transition pieces, we just created edges with hardwood perpendicular to the rest of the floor.

Second, the hardibacker is waterproof, so if water manages to seep through the tiles and grout, the hardibacker will prevent it from getting through the plywood and rotting it.

Since you already have 3/4" plywood in place, you should be fine, I don't think you need additional support. If it was 5/8" or 1/2", then yes, but 3/4" is very sturdy, if it's in good shape, you'll be fine.

I don't think that 3/4" is good enough with 2x6 on 16" centers. Tile is HEAVY! I have seen many cracked tile floors because of insignificant support. Remember, you can't take one cracked one out and replace it.

lowsound

 

[ModulusFan]

I don't think that 3/4" is good enough with 2x6 on 16" centers. Tile is HEAVY! I have seen many cracked tile floors because of insignificant support. Remember, you can't take one cracked one out and replace it.

lowsound

Uh, yeah you can....or a skilled tilesetter can anyway as long as there is leftover tiles, and grout.

As far as substrates go, the best (and only) recommendation is to do it exactly how each and every manufacturer states for that given product. It may be a matter of opinion, but one guys opinion doesn't matter when a failure occurs. They will go back to the "book", and look for non-compliance. Want to be compensated in the event of a failure? Then do it right whether you agree with it or not. ANY deflection of the substrate WILL cause tile to fail.

Laminates - mixed basket here. Just know that if it was bought from an american company, does not mean it was made in USA. Tons of engineered floors are having big problems due to chinese plywood being used....in "US made" products. Laminates are a tricky bag, and it isn't always you get what you pay for in this instance. Water itself normally doesn't swell edges....add a drop of soap and it will be ruined instantly. I'd strongly recommend not using it in an area prone to get wet.

 

[ModulusFan]

The good stuff is water repellent and it shouldn't shrink.

Wrong, unless it is made of plastic or some other kind of composite. If it is installed before acclimation, or not kept within the recommended temp/rh range it WILL shrink/swell. Quality and price paid has nothing to do with the nature and behavior of wood products.

 

[Stu L.]

Wow, some great discussion here

I am not against a hardi backer, just curious as to why it's needed.

I've done tile work before, and it's not bad at all. Luckily, my father in law already bought the cheap saw, so I'll just use it. Is any kind of tile better than another in general, ceramic, slate, granite, etc?

 

[ModulusFan]

Wow, some great discussion here

I am not against a hardi backer, just curious as to why it's needed.

I've done tile work before, and it's not bad at all. Luckily, my father in law already bought the cheap saw, so I'll just use it. Is any kind of tile better than another in general, ceramic, slate, granite, etc?

Hardi backer more or less ensures no deflection in the floor, which breaks tiles. There may be other acceptable substrates, but again refer to each manufacturers specific installation instructions.

 

[TrooperFarva]

I don't think that 3/4" is good enough with 2x6 on 16" centers. Tile is HEAVY! I have seen many cracked tile floors because of insignificant support. Remember, you can't take one cracked one out and replace it.

lowsound

I'm only thinking of 1/4" tile, which, albeit more heavy per sq. ft. than say plywood, isn't all that heavy. In our kitchen, we had 3/4" plywood floor on top of a 2X8 frame, so we just laid down the cement board, and then the tile on top of that. Eventually, cabinets were installed on top of the tiles, and the cabinets got granite countertops. There was a lot of surface area to the countertops, so probably about 1500lbs of stuff on top of the tiles, and no cracks.

Better support is definitely needed for heavier tile, like granite tiles, 1/2" or thicker, that sort of thing, or if the tile is a very large pattern, 15"X15" or bigger. A larger tile will span a dip in the floor, and crack easily, whereas 4"X4" tiles would fill a dip in the floor.

But this all assumes that the plywood that's there is in good shape, if it shows any signs of flexing or rotting, replace it or put another layer down, because that will lead to problems.

And it is possible to replace a single cracked tile, I've done it before. It sucks, and it takes time, but it can be done.

 

[TrooperFarva]

I am not against a hardi backer, just curious as to why it's needed.

To elevate the tiles to be even with the other floors, and as a waterproof barrier.

I've done tile work before, and it's not bad at all. Luckily, my father in law already bought the cheap saw, so I'll just use it. Is any kind of tile better than another in general, ceramic, slate, granite, etc?

For floor tiles, I'd go with slate. It cleans easily, lasts a long time, and since it's not reflective the way ceramic or especially granite would be, you don't have to worry about scuffing from high foot traffic.

Hardi backer more or less ensures no deflection in the floor, which breaks tiles. There may be other acceptable substrates, but again refer to each manufacturers specific installation instructions.

Hardibacker, like any cement product really, is very strong under stress, and fairly weak under strain. The plywood you're attaching the hardibacker to needs to be completely flat to begin with, if not, the hardibacker itself can break, and the tiles along with it. Also, if the floor isn't totally flat, it can leave the joints of the hardibacker boards uneven, which will also likely crack the tile.

 

[yoda8905]

I happen to work as a helper for a tilesetter, so I think I can lend some help. I would not recommend setting tile on an unsteady substrate. it will create too much movement and WILL eventually crack grout joints or tile. It is totally kosher to tile directly on top of plywood for a floor. Make sure you use a 1/8th inch notch trowel to apply the thinset to the floor.

For the absolute best results and maximum breakage insurance i would use a product called Ditra-Mat. This is set to the floor before you tile, then is tiled on top. It protects not only against water damage ( it is made of plastic), but it protects your tile from floor movement and shifting. You can get it at any home depot. it is an obnoxious orange color. I will not give any floor i do a warranty without the use of ditra mat.

Any kind of tile can be used for a floor, slate is a good choice, but the slate tiles are often of differing thicknesses which can be a pain for anyone that has not used it before. A ceramic or porcelain tiles can be cut with a cutting board, which can be easier and less messy to install in the long run. And i also highly recommend you rent a good wet saw, as buying a cheap one will cost more in tiles broken by a piece of junk wet saw.

 

[Stu L.]

I happen to work as a helper for a tilesetter, so I think I can lend some help. I would not recommend setting tile on an unsteady substrate. it will create too much movement and WILL eventually crack grout joints or tile. It is totally kosher to tile directly on top of plywood for a floor. Make sure you use a 1/8th inch notch trowel to apply the thinset to the floor.

Thanks for the input. A couple of questions; How do you determine if a substrate is steady or not? I have 0 movement, with the washer spinning and my large self banging around.

I assume since there are varying notches in trowels, each has it's place. Why 1/8"? Closer spacing in the thinset for more surface contact?

Isn't there another product besides thinset for applying tiles, mastic maybe? Pros/cons or just different uses? Same thing, different name?