- Apr 23, 2003
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- Artist Relations/Product Specialist: Mesa Boogie
Excellent point. If you've ever seen the Fodera wood stash.....wow. The Korina on my bass was 50 years old when Joey bought it 20 years ago....
Aloha, Garey
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Fodera Club Part II
- Thread starter Mark Wilson
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Excellent point. If you've ever seen the Fodera wood stash.....wow. The Korina on my bass was 50 years old when Joey bought it 20 years ago....
Aloha, Garey
Just Thumpin'
Commercial User
- Mar 7, 2008
- 4,534
- 1,664
- Disclosures
- Manager and Partner, Fodera Guitars (10/14/09 - 12/16/19)
Gang -- it is everyone's right to question a Company's pricing and ultimately, we all get to vote with our wallet. I will be the first to say that some of the things on our price list need to be revised. We will be getting to that in the next month or two, probably for a January 1 roll out...
That said, some things will go up in price and some things will go down, but at the end of the day, we will be making the pricing more rational and well thought out (something that we now have the time and skill set to get done).
Undoubtedly, there are still going to be a fair number of folks who will see Fodera's pricing as being too high and I can totally respect that. On the other side of the coin as a customer of the Company before becoming an owner -- I paid those prices several times, for several builds and seeing the amount of time that goes into the instruments -- wow, I now completely understand the pricing.
One simple example -- our wooden pickup covers are all made 100% by hand. There are no jigs, no machined parts, nothing. They start as two glued up blocks of wood and are then hand worked for 1/2 day (a fair bit longer if they match the instrument's top and need to be spray finished). Over the years the guys at Fodera never asked how to do things less expensively...they just tried to make the best product and however long it took to make things "right," that's how long it took.
Does it make sense to have such a painstakingly slow build process where EVERYTHING is done 100% by hand? It depends on the view of the Customer and the business owner. The Customer's decision is ALWAYS RIGHT for that person, but then again so is the business owner's. The real question is do the wants and needs of the Customer match up with those of the business owner? Thank goodness that the world has all kinds of Customers and all kinds of builders...we each end up getting to find the right ones to work with.
I wish Foderas could be less expensive so that we could get them into the hands of a lot more players. Believe me, we don't want to be an "exclusive" brand. We do, however, want our product and service quality to be at the VERY, VERY top and we will always ask ourselves what the best way to serve the instrument is...and then price them based on where we end up. This is the direct opposite of the way most businesses function (i.e. engineer the product to meet a certain price point).
It's funny, Fodera went the latter approach with the NYC line -- trying to make as good a bass as possible, to as closely resemble the Fodera experience as possible (while adding a touch of Vintage Vibe) to meet a certain price point. At the end of the day, it is far harder for us to sell those instruments than it is to sell our Custom pieces. We have several very nice NYC's available for immediate delivery at all times and yet the wait time for a Custom instrument is 2 years...
We are trying very hard to become more organized in the back of the shop so that we can reduce build times, we have injected a lot more working capital into the business so that be can afford to buy things in higher volumes and get better pricing on materials and supplies and that will hopefully payoff for all of us (Customers and owners). We'll see and I promise to keep you posted on how we are doing.
As a final point...when I first approached Vinny and Joey about becoming their partner, it was because I saw some of the very finest craftsmen in the world literally struggling each week to pay the bills to continue operating their business. The conventional wisdom that the Owners of Fodera got rich because of the high prices of the instruments is just dead wrong. Frankly, Vinny, Joey and me are a bit nuts. We really do put the quality of the instruments before ANYTHING else and we do it in a way that hopefully is unique and wonderful. This kind of business philosophy is incredibly rare these days. We all hope that enough people out there continue to dig what we are doing enough so that we can keep doing what we love for a really long time.
Peace.
That said, some things will go up in price and some things will go down, but at the end of the day, we will be making the pricing more rational and well thought out (something that we now have the time and skill set to get done).
Undoubtedly, there are still going to be a fair number of folks who will see Fodera's pricing as being too high and I can totally respect that. On the other side of the coin as a customer of the Company before becoming an owner -- I paid those prices several times, for several builds and seeing the amount of time that goes into the instruments -- wow, I now completely understand the pricing.
One simple example -- our wooden pickup covers are all made 100% by hand. There are no jigs, no machined parts, nothing. They start as two glued up blocks of wood and are then hand worked for 1/2 day (a fair bit longer if they match the instrument's top and need to be spray finished). Over the years the guys at Fodera never asked how to do things less expensively...they just tried to make the best product and however long it took to make things "right," that's how long it took.
Does it make sense to have such a painstakingly slow build process where EVERYTHING is done 100% by hand? It depends on the view of the Customer and the business owner. The Customer's decision is ALWAYS RIGHT for that person, but then again so is the business owner's. The real question is do the wants and needs of the Customer match up with those of the business owner? Thank goodness that the world has all kinds of Customers and all kinds of builders...we each end up getting to find the right ones to work with.
I wish Foderas could be less expensive so that we could get them into the hands of a lot more players. Believe me, we don't want to be an "exclusive" brand. We do, however, want our product and service quality to be at the VERY, VERY top and we will always ask ourselves what the best way to serve the instrument is...and then price them based on where we end up. This is the direct opposite of the way most businesses function (i.e. engineer the product to meet a certain price point).
It's funny, Fodera went the latter approach with the NYC line -- trying to make as good a bass as possible, to as closely resemble the Fodera experience as possible (while adding a touch of Vintage Vibe) to meet a certain price point. At the end of the day, it is far harder for us to sell those instruments than it is to sell our Custom pieces. We have several very nice NYC's available for immediate delivery at all times and yet the wait time for a Custom instrument is 2 years...
We are trying very hard to become more organized in the back of the shop so that we can reduce build times, we have injected a lot more working capital into the business so that be can afford to buy things in higher volumes and get better pricing on materials and supplies and that will hopefully payoff for all of us (Customers and owners). We'll see and I promise to keep you posted on how we are doing.
As a final point...when I first approached Vinny and Joey about becoming their partner, it was because I saw some of the very finest craftsmen in the world literally struggling each week to pay the bills to continue operating their business. The conventional wisdom that the Owners of Fodera got rich because of the high prices of the instruments is just dead wrong. Frankly, Vinny, Joey and me are a bit nuts. We really do put the quality of the instruments before ANYTHING else and we do it in a way that hopefully is unique and wonderful. This kind of business philosophy is incredibly rare these days. We all hope that enough people out there continue to dig what we are doing enough so that we can keep doing what we love for a really long time.
Peace.
TimothyGroovy
Commercial User
- Aug 3, 2000
- 2,374
- 2,097
- Disclosures
- Owner: Uni•Sound Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars, Olinto Bass, LaBella Strings
Truly understanding and support!! I see fodera things like you are getting a life-long bass guitar at a reasonable price and comes with their effort, time, knowledge and Craftsmanship.
I respect some's point on pricey instrument.. but compare with a grand piano, vintage string instruments..Ours, bass guitar, or a 8-10k Fodera bass become nothing..
Just Thumpin'
Don't get me wrong, I want and I WILL totally pay 10k $ + for a Fodera when I get out of school. I know they are worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I want and I WILL totally pay 10k $ + for a Fodera when I get out of school. I know they are worth it.
I respect some's point on pricey instrument.. but compare with a grand piano, vintage string instruments..Ours, bass guitar, or a 8-10k Fodera bass become nothing..
...until you see how much work, time, materials, people and machinery go into making a piano. It's not comparable.
Some good points. If the Brazilian board is indeed aged 100 years and the covers are made without any machinery, then I suppose that there is a value in that. I don't know what the tonal difference between a 100 year old board and a 20 year old board would be, but I can see the desire to have 'the best' regardless of how minimal the tonal impact.
I'm glad that there are companies that are building this way and I wish them continued success, but I am officially taking Fodera off of my gear radar. Thanks, Jason, and all for answering my questions. I will keep an eye on Fodera because the partnership seems exciting.
I'm glad that there are companies that are building this way and I wish them continued success, but I am officially taking Fodera off of my gear radar. Thanks, Jason, and all for answering my questions. I will keep an eye on Fodera because the partnership seems exciting.
What difference does it make to the customer that the pickup covers are made with no machinery, apart from the price?
They don't necessarily come out neater, better etc. It just takes more time to make them this way.
Honestly, that is kind of why I'm no longer considering a Fodera. Things like that are not important to me, as a musician, but I certainly appreciate the comitment to their craft. As I said, I'm glad that people are taking the time to do this sort of thing.
Ha. You seem to assume that he can't get anything above a Fender without buying a Fodera. I admire Fodera for being an innovator, but simply can't justify the price when there are some new luthiers capable of extreme greatness at a very affordable price. Maybe I'd justify a Fodera if I were a one-bass kind of guy, but when I can get two top notch basses for about the same price, it's hard to pass this up. I realize resale isn't as good, but I never buy with the intention of selling later.
Perhaps you might be well advised to read posts properly before moaning about them.
I was not complaining and you may not have noticed it but my point was in no way about what they make but about how it is made and about possible ways to make it easier on them given that no benefit seems to come from complicating certain processes where it may not be needed, given the afore mentioned( not by me) issues that seem to make life difficult.
BTW... I'm not really that much into fenders these days but really wouldn't mind a nice P.
Thanks for the advice.
Oh I absolutelly agree here.
I am not in the slightest opposed to making things by hand when it is feasible to do so.
my point was merely that if no benefit results from them and all you get is longer leadtimes and angry customers because things are taking so long I'd question certain processes.
That's all.
I'm not criticizing your post but addressing everyones comments on it....
It would seem to me (a guy with no wood working experience) that to cut the covers for a specific pickup on a specific Fodera bass will vary greatly on every other decision that is made along the way, the amount of strings, type of pickup, location and wood chosen. For that reason they are probably not going to program a CNC machine to work on a one off piece. So again from a layman it would seem the only way to accomplish custom pick up covers would be to do it by hand, assisted by power tools if that makes sense. That is going to take time and cost money.
Fodera puts a price on it and leave the decision if that is worth the cost in your particular build or not.
Oops. I just re-read that. He said no 'machined parts.' I thought he meant no machines, period.
I was not assuming that. Fender is just one example of a bass that is mass-produced. If you want a mass-produced bass, buy one. If you want a custom made work of art, buy that. If you want to buy a bass that is part mass-produced and then customized, buy that. Buy whatever you want. But don't complain that the custom work is too expensive because assembly-line products are cheaper. Supply and demand dictates that the Fodera is going to be more expensive than many other basses because there is only 1 Vinny and 1 Joey (and 1 Vadim, etc.) and, if you want their services, you are going to have to pay for it.
But customers do NOT "own" the company or the people in it. I am appalled by the suggestion by some people that Vinny was "wrong" to have built ONE bass for himself in 30 years. Building that 1 bass is NOT what caused the 3-year wait for some of his other basses. That delay was caused by Fodera having too few people with too much work to do, plus what appears to be poor scheduling and other less-than-perfect business practices. Hopefully those business and scheduling problems will now be fixed.
That seems like an entirely reasonable suggestion. I was mostly reacting to the large number of posts whining about the delays and about the 30th anniversary bass.I was not complaining and you may not have noticed it but my point was in no way about what they make but about how it is made and about possible ways to make it easier on them given that no benefit seems to come from complicating certain processes where it may not be needed, given the afore mentioned( not by me) issues that seem to make life difficult.
[edit:]
.. and I see that ANOTHER of those posts appeared as I was typing this one! Jeesh! Fodera could have a 10-year wait for basses, and Vinny would STILL deserve to take time to eat, to sleep, to go out and do whatever he wants to do, to take a vacation, whatever he wants! To whine that he took some time for something other than working on those delayed projects is simply childish. And it is also very disrespectful because it's as if the people complaining about that 1 project think that Vinny is their slave, that they own him, or that he is a machine.
Tom7
I'm so bright, my mom called me son! ;-)
Maybe I haven't been reading carefully enough, but I don't think I've seen anyone disagreeing with that.
I know I certainly don't begrudge anyone a personal life, and cannot imagine anyone would...
But I do think it is a bit slimy if some people can jump the line and get their bass without having to wait like everyone else.
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