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Fodera Club Part II

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.. and I see that ANOTHER of those posts appeared as I was typing this one! Jeesh! Fodera could have a 10-year wait for basses, and Vinny would STILL deserve to take time to eat, to sleep, to go out and do whatever he wants to do, to take a vacation, whatever he wants! To whine that he took some time for something other than working on those delayed projects is simply childish. And it is also very disrespectful because it's as if the people complaining about that 1 project think that Vinny is their slave, that they own him, or that he is a machine.


You must not run your own business. You are WAY off base on this. Your logic is 'interesting'. I wish my clients were as 'understanding' as you. On the other had, I'm glad they aren't:D To equate eating and sleeping with building a spec 'vanity' bass doesn't really make sense, and building that vanity bass when you have all those missed deadlines is amazingly poor judgement. It's the missed promised deadlines, not the absolute time of the wait that is the issue. If everyone was told 3 years, and it took three years, then Vinnie could do whatever he wants and no one would care. You seem to not realize that most of these guys were promised a bass in 9 to 12 months.
 
That seems like an entirely reasonable suggestion. I was mostly reacting to the large number of posts whining about the delays and about the 30th anniversary bass.

[edit:]
.. and I see that ANOTHER of those posts appeared as I was typing this one! Jeesh! Fodera could have a 10-year wait for basses, and Vinny would STILL deserve to take time to eat, to sleep, to go out and do whatever he wants to do, to take a vacation, whatever he wants! To whine that he took some time for something other than working on those delayed projects is simply childish. And it is also very disrespectful because it's as if the people complaining about that 1 project think that Vinny is their slave, that they own him, or that he is a machine.

I said this earlier....The only caviat to that is the guy that may have put down a few grand or more that's sitting in the Fodera account and their bass is a year or more beyond the date it was promised. If that was me I might have a very strong and not so positive opinion on the matter.

Since I am not in that position I won't comment or criticize those that do....
 
You must not run your own business.
I ran my own business for almost 25 years. I know what I'm talking about.

To equate eating and sleeping with building a spec 'vanity' bass doesn't really make sense, and building that vanity bass when you have all those missed deadlines is amazingly poor judgement.
You missed the part about going out, vacationing, etc. I think that people deserve some time off. If you agree that Vinny deserves some time off, then he can do what he wants in that time, and if that turns out to be building a so-called "vanity" bass, then that's his right. If you don't agree, then you must think you "own" Vinny. And that's nuts.

It's the missed promised deadlines, not the absolute time of the wait that is the issue.
And that issue is due to the lack of funds, the lack of personnel, poor scheduling and other possibly less-than-stellar business practices. I think everyone agrees that was a bad situation and that it will improve due to the new business set up.

You don't seem to be able to keep two distinct issues separate. It is completely, totally, absolutely UNreasonable to object to Vinny building ONE BASS for himself in 26 years. Period. OTOH, it is completely resonable to think that missing delivery dates is a bad business practice. But that situation is being dealt with. So, why are you STILL complaining?
 
I was not assuming that. Fender is just one example of a bass that is mass-produced. If you want a mass-produced bass, buy one. If you want a custom made work of art, buy that. If you want to buy a bass that is part mass-produced and then customized, buy that. Buy whatever you want. But don't complain that the custom work is too expensive because assembly-line products are cheaper. Supply and demand dictates that the Fodera is going to be more expensive than many other basses because there is only 1 Vinny and 1 Joey (and 1 Vadim, etc.) and, if you want their services, you are going to have to pay for it.

I haven't purchased anything mass-produced in a long time. You don't have to wander too far on TB to find a new herd of luthiers that are up to the challenge and probably about 1/2 the price. I still respect Fodera enough not to mention them in this particular thread, but NickyBass and I know how to get top notch quality at pretty reasonable prices.

Sure, I might be able to afford one, but spending extra $ for a name just isn't a priority with me. Been there, done that.
 
instead of keep talking about money and stuff like that here are pictures of my two fodera basses (this thread lacks pictures IMO)

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Sorry, pics.........Here is a Fodera I used to own:

monarch.jpg



Thanks for the words, Spade.

I'm not a stranger to custom basses. I've been around the block a few times, and I know what I need in a bass. Like I said, I'm keeping an eye on Fodera, but at this point, I'm not convinced to place an order.
 
That seems like an entirely reasonable suggestion. I was mostly reacting to the large number of posts whining about the delays and about the 30th anniversary bass.

[edit:]
.. and I see that ANOTHER of those posts appeared as I was typing this one! Jeesh! Fodera could have a 10-year wait for basses, and Vinny would STILL deserve to take time to eat, to sleep, to go out and do whatever he wants to do, to take a vacation, whatever he wants! To whine that he took some time for something other than working on those delayed projects is simply childish. And it is also very disrespectful because it's as if the people complaining about that 1 project think that Vinny is their slave, that they own him, or that he is a machine.

Agreed in parts.:)
I guess it may have been a simple case of "interesting timing" as the lead time issue is heard of more and more, there appears a bass that wasn't an on order instrument. "Bad business" is the first thing I thaught. Making yourselve a bass just comes across entirely different than going on vacation in this particular instance.
It's appearance which seems part of it all.

My initial post was never meant as a complaint(I am on no waiting list).
I merely noticed something and wrote it.

On the disrespect I am on the fence.
I think you are right in saying that people should not think that the fodera crew are their slaves, I also don't think many are thinking that.
I just recon that they are thinking "where the .... is my bass that I spent all that money on and that's now very overdue?".

I agree that it may come across as disrespect in some cases but think that people might be forgiven for harsh words as it can't be easy being on that waiting list .Just as much as I think the fodera crew might be forgiven for getting swamped and not keeping up as much as one should as they seem to be doing something about it now. Not everyone is a gifted business man( thinking appropriate pricing is part of that).
Respect is however something one earns and doesn't come for free.

I can not say that having people wait years beyond a promised lead time or not answering calls and e-mails etc(as some have mentioned) is all that respectful either.
Intended or not.
At the end I just think people are getting anxcious and wonder where all their money's gone.

As to my bass(since you mentioned it);
All my instruments apart from an ashbory are custom instruments.
They took the time they took to be built ( no more than one and a half year so far) and I'm cool with that.
The luthier always picks up the phone and always keeps me up to date.
He's made 5 basses for me over the last 16 years and is a good friend.

Sorry for the long post :-)
 
wow, miss a month on TB and things go nutty. first off, super congrats to JT, sounds like a very exciting business venture. however, given foderas track record, and my own business experience, i'd be careful about assurances like this one...

A bass ordered today would be given a build slot in August 2011 and shipped in October 2011 -- in a nutshell, 2 years.

HOWEVER, this is a real number based on a serious schedule that includes every bass presently on order. The schedule we are using DOES NOT include any increase in production as a result of:

1. Vinny and Joey now being able to devote 90% of their time to building (rather than 50% to building and the rest to running the business);

2. An additional hire or two we plan to make in the back of the shop that will allow Joey, Vinny and Vadym to focus more on the things only they can and should be doing.

We didn't include any of that upside in speeding things along because they haven't happened yet, but hopefully they will ease things out quite a bit.

Again, as stated in an earlier post, eventually we would like to see the wait down to under 18 months (ideally at around 12 months).

Finally, most of the horror stories about 3 and 4 year waits were due more to scheduling mistakes and just plain bad scheduling decisions than there really being a 3+ year backlog...

Gang, I have promised to be candid and I will be. Part of my joining the Fodera Team involved asking very tough questions of Joey and Vinny. Please believe me when I tell you that they are as disappointed and frustrated with the way things were as all of you were / are. That is why they decided to make a very significant change...

everyone seems really excited that you've gotten involved and i too think that this is a good thing for fodera. however an outside influence can only do so much and thinking that guys building instruments via old-world hand-carving methods will be able to stick to an exact schedule is really far fetched. even factoring in standard 30% contingency, you are still taking big risks and setting up promises that will only disappoint people. giving firm dates with 1 month wiggle room is not realistic for this kind of production. these guys aren't magicians. mistakes happen, people get sick, take vacation, get hurt, encounter blizzards, have material shortages, or transit strikes...you can dream it up, it can happen and there are too many variables to forecast accurately so far out. some people can't handle the irratic quoted build times, but if you order a custom instrument you need to expect it. carl thompson often talks about making mistakes and starting over because if he's sending it out, it has to be sent out just right...to his standards (you can watch the youtube vids and hear the stories from his mouth). i imagine fodera holds their quality in a similar regard...and if that's to hold true, i warn you of making promises that will only tarnish your reputation (as well as fodera).

don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to jump on the haters band-wagon. i've had 2 foderas myself, each different animals and each amazing in their own right. i've found that fodera isn't really my ideal bass. i do hope to own one in the future since i was always impressed with them, but the weight and size and playability to me is comparable to driving and old world classic car. gorgeous and a dream luxury to own, but not your everyday vehicle. that's just me...many swear by them though and that's cool too. i just hate to see your business venture turn sour because you are excited and ambitious about the project. remember, your excitement won't cure the flu if the entire workshop catches the bug and production ceases for a week or two.
 
Congratulation Just Thumpin' for your new job... I am very happy that you are there and will try to do something for the customers benefit... please take care that Fodera basses not to become a commercialized instruments. Do not organize the job for a maximal profit, by sacrificing the quality...
 
Congratulation Just Thumpin' for your new job... I am very happy that you are there and will try to do something for the customers benefit... please take care that Fodera basses not to become a commercialized instruments. Do not organize the job for a maximal profit, by sacrificing the quality...

No worries there...we are all equally insane about keeping Fodera what it is! The instruments will remain just as lovingly crafted and cared about as they always have been.

Also, as to the post above about scheduling...all points well made and dead on. We are under no illusions that our involvement will lead to perfect scheduling from here on out, however, what we can promise is that when there is an issue, it will be clearly, proactively and thoroughly communicated. We will also always provide the best information that we currently have -- if the whole shop gets the Swine Flu, guess what, things just changed. We'll let you know!

Building at this level is more art than business and that often throws a monkey wrench into the works. I am certain that on some instruments we will miss our target ship dates by several months (wish I could predict which these would be!) -- if at the last minute someone's neck feels wonky when we sit down to play a seemingly finished instrument, we've got to start all over and build a new one for that customer.

However, this SHOULD be the exception and we all believe that even this type of situation if communicated proactively and clearly will be vastly improved compared to how things have been.
 
what we can promise is that when there is an issue, it will be clearly, proactively and thoroughly communicated. We will also always provide the best information that we currently have -- if the whole shop gets the Swine Flu, guess what, things just changed. We'll let you know!

Here it is!! :)
The solution to the real and underlying problem , no?
 
Seriously, this is a GREAT thing, and you obviously have a love for the brand. This is the first time in many years that Fodera is now back on my 'consider' list.

I am just getting caught back up on all the news in this thead so I am just reading the good news. I totally agree with you Ken. After a couple of bad customer service experiences with 2 of the Fodera basses I owned...I had crossed them off my list. Hopefully, with these new changes going on. We will truly see the entire Fodera experience be what it should be. A company that, not only, makes some of the best guitars but also has the service to back it up.

It will be back on my "consider" list now too.
 
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