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Fodera vs other high end basses

#101
GRAHAM JACOBS said:
And this is precisely what first got me intrigued about Foderas.

The users on the Fodera thread display an unmatched passion for their instruments. No question.
Fantastic playability is often mentioned. Many Fodera owners attest to having lost interest in 'rival' brands after having discovered Fodera. Indeed, the acquisition of a first Fodera has been referred to as a 'gateway drug' within the Fodera thread (with apologies to Nostatic)..... but at the same time I do not detect any brand snobbery. In fact, quite the opposite. For example, the Fodera Club doesn't even bother to issue numbers.

No doubt, these instruments harbor a degree of mystique - for me at least, seeing as I'm too far away from the nearest dealer to be able to try one out for myself.......yet. However, on the basis of the consistently high reviews that these instruments have received, including in recent issues of Bass Gear Magazine and UK's Bass Guitar Magazine, I would DEFINITELY have gone to try one out a long time ago if I were in the USA.

Whether all of the above could translate to value for money would, of course, depend on the individual - but it seems to me that there's a lot more to Fodera than just being a fancy brand.
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LOL. Not so much. Roscoe, Sadowsky, MTD, etc. all show the same amount of enthusiasm, and the same amount of 'ex brand x users who now have seen the light because they moved to current brand y'.

There is also an equal amount of churn in these uber high end bass brands, due to the fact that most full time players can't afford them... they are driven strongly by the hobbyist, who has a great day job. Nothing wrong with that.

You should try one though. Each of these high end brands has a very different tone and feel, and as you get experience playing them and, if you have the scratch, owning various of these brands (I've owned and gigged them all, pretty much), you will see there there is no 'best', and that the ONLY thing that separates FBass, MTD, Skjold, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Fodera, Ken Smith, etc. is the different aesthetics and tone that will appeal to different players.

Back to what the OP was asking (again:p), the issue is if a similarly spec'd Fodera is worth literally twice the cost of these other amazing basses. For many, I guess the answer is yes. For me, not so much. The great thing for me is that when I sold my Fodera after quite a number of years of gigging it, it was after the massive price spike that Fodera put in place a number of years ago (which, IMO, was a VERY good business decision...again, not knocking them). I paid around $4,500 for a totally tricked out Emperor Elite 5 with AAAAA top, five piece neck, ebony board, wooden pickup covers, etc. in 2000). That bass would be around $11,000 today (maybe more). I sold it in 2008 for actually more than I paid for it originally (due to that massive price spike), and it was pretty beat up due to the massive number of gigs I was doing during that period. So, I basically played one for free for 8 years or so!
 
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#102
It seems when anything is priced above average, the debate begins as to its worth, and the sanity of those who purchase them. Harley-Davidson, Snap-On, all the exotic cars, Rolex, on and on. If they are around for upwards, and over 100 years, there is some degree of quality that enough people perceive worthwhile. Fodera, at 30 years, appears to be stronger than ever. People will go on saying they aren't worth it, and to them, they aren't. But are they all that great? Yes.
 
#103
Mick,

Go out and play on everything you are interested in. Set up an appointment with the builders, talk with them about what you are interested in. Check out EVERYTHING and multiples of everything. Ask more questions about the instruments from owners/former owners, pros and cons. Do your homework, make this a big project in your life. In the end find an instrument that you love. After you have made your decision figure out how you are going to pay for it, try and not let price guide your search.



lotusland9663 said:
I've been a semi-pro/amateur bassist for decades. As I near the end of my playing career I wonder what it would be like to own a really high end bass like a Fodera.

For those of you who have owned or own a Fodera and have had other high end basses , Sadowsky, Lull, AC, Kinal, Elrick, Fender Custom etc. etc. is the price difference worth it?

I'm more interested in your opinion regarding playability, sound, tonal variety, reliability - the day to day practical aspects of the instrument rather than resale value, collectibility, status or other considerations not related to a working instrument.

I've been looking at some instruments on TB. It seem I can get a used Emperor Standard or Elite 5 for under $5K. Worth it vs the Sadowsky MV5 or Kinal 5 MK21 or Fender American Standard 5 or Elrick Platinum 6 I currently own??

Thanks in advance for your input.
Mick
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#104
KJung said:
LOL. Not so much. Roscoe, Sadowsky, MTD, etc. all show the same amount of enthusiasm, and the same amount of 'ex brand x users who now have seen the light because they moved to current brand y'.
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+ 1

And that is a phenomenon not just isolated to basses...believe me, it happens with amps as well lol. I'm really one of those "Love my variety of options" kind of guys, so I'd rather have several unique and different options than be stuck (yes, sorry, but that's how I see it) with one bass all the time. Perhaps a brand could do that, but so far the only one I've felt I could do that with would be Ibanez because of how many options there are with them.
 
#105
I have been blessed to be able own several high-end basses!! Two Roscoes, Modulus, a slew of Fenders and I have to say Fodera is the one instrument that feels as if it is an extension of my body. Every thing from the tonewoods, electronics, and finish are all highly superior to any other bass Ive ever played. The price tag is easily justifiable in my mind!!!!
 
#106
As an Alembic bass owner for 30 years, and bought and sold 3 during that time I have to say you get what you pay for, usually. Everyone has their favorite builder and become loyal customers. I just happen to take a liking to Alembic. Any bass player who has heard of Stanley knows what tones he can get out of his bass. Remember, tone comes mostly from the fingers.The bass is just a tool.

Getting a new Alembic is extremely expensive now. Getting used might be the only way for a regular guy to get one. They are one of only a few builders that make everything in house. Their electronics and pickups are second to none and you can usually recognize that Alembic tone. Their inlay work is fantastic! Even the plain ovals are great looking. I believe they are one of the only builders that have brass insets for the screws. Also they have perfected their side LED's installation as other builders shy away from them.

Alembics aren't for everybody, but they all are works of art in construction and quality of materials. They have their own loyal customers and even in this economy are still busy. They never advertise and never go to NAMM shows. The only advertisement is word of mouth. That's pretty good after 40 something years! The hardest part is the wait for one.
 
#107
Munjibunga said:
... define "worth it."

I own Foderas, Sadowskys, Laklands, a Drozd, an F Bass, a LeCompte and have owned Roscoe, Pedulla, MTD and Zon basses. One of my Foderas cost about double what most of the other basses cost, but the build quality, playability, and sound quality of them are approximately the same (they sound different from each other, but it's a matter of tone character, not quality). When you reach into that price range, the quality has to be there or the company will go out of business.

With few exceptions, one of the things that comes with basses of that quality is superb customer service. Most of the luthiers I mentioned will take care of any problems that may arise out of something other than misuse.

Only you can say whether a high-end bass is worth it to you. If you have the financial wherewithal, there is a certain type of pleasure that comes with playing a high-end bass. How much do you want to pay for that? It's up to you.
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very well put. interesting topic op
 
#109
KJung said:
The great thing for me is that when I sold my Fodera after quite a number of years of gigging it, it was after the massive price spike that Fodera put in place a number of years ago (which, IMO, was a VERY good business decision...again, not knocking them). I paid around $4,500 for a totally tricked out Emperor Elite 5 with AAAAA top, five piece neck, ebony board, wooden pickup covers, etc. in 2000). That bass would be around $11,000 today (maybe more). I sold it in 2008 for actually more than I paid for it originally (due to that massive price spike), and it was pretty beat up due to the massive number of gigs I was doing during that period. So, I basically played one for free for 8 years or so!
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That's great. Pretty much the exact same story for me. I paid under $3000 for my Emperor Elite in 1992 and sold it for waaaaay more than that in 1999, and like yours it was really throttled from the road and had all kinds of wear. A few months later I heard the jerk I sold it to was bragging around Boston that he ripped me off. I couldn't help but laugh to myself :ninja:

Another plus of that brand is that the resale value stays tends to hang around current market pricing.
 
#110
KJung said:
LOL. Not so much. Roscoe, Sadowsky, MTD, etc. all show the same amount of enthusiasm, and the same amount of 'ex brand x users who now have seen the light because they moved to current brand y'.

There is also an equal amount of churn in these uber high end bass brands, due to the fact that most full time players can't afford them... they are driven strongly by the hobbyist, who has a great day job. Nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...

Alembic definitely draws a very loyal followership. Maybe not so much on TB, but there is an Alembic Club sponsored on Alembic's servers but moderated by third parties that ranges from enthusiastic to over the top.

There is, as Ken suggests, a bit of churn even among the higher end brands. Some of that is due to enthusiasts trading up. Not a lot of one and done. Only months after getting my first Alembic, I packaged it and $500 in a trade to move up to a nicer model. When I finally got around to ordering the only new Alembic I've ever owned, I sold two other used Alembics I had acquired and didn't lose a penny on either. I pretty much played for a couple years for free.
.....
KJung said:
Back to what the OP was asking (again:p), the issue is if a similarly spec'd Fodera is worth literally twice the cost of these other amazing basses. For many, I guess the answer is yes. For me, not so much. The great thing for me is that when I sold my Fodera after quite a number of years of gigging it, it was after the massive price spike that Fodera put in place a number of years ago (which, IMO, was a VERY good business decision...again, not knocking them). I paid around $4,500 for a totally tricked out Emperor Elite 5 with AAAAA top, five piece neck, ebony board, wooden pickup covers, etc. in 2000). That bass would be around $11,000 today (maybe more). I sold it in 2008 for actually more than I paid for it originally (due to that massive price spike), and it was pretty beat up due to the massive number of gigs I was doing during that period. So, I basically played one for free for 8 years or so!
Click to expand...

Bald Steve said:
That's great. Pretty much the exact same story for me. I paid under $3000 for my Emperor Elite in 1992 and sold it for waaaaay more than that in 1999, and like yours it was really throttled from the road and had all kinds of wear. A few months later I heard the jerk I sold it to was bragging around Boston that he ripped me off. I couldn't help but laugh to myself :ninja:
Click to expand...

I've experienced similar "inflation" with my remaining two Alembics. The one I custom ordered in 1999-2000 rocked the Alembic Cost Estimator tool at somewhere around $11,500 retail when I ordered it. That was before various promotional discounts and dealer discount. I paid a lot less than retail for it. They've had 3 or 4 price increases over the 13 years I've owned it. Now speccing out the same bass rings up over $21,000 on the estimator. As a result used prices have also risen. I've seen lesser examples of similar basses sell used for a lot more than I paid for mine 13 years ago. And the other one that I bought for $5,000 from a celebrity bassist could likely sell today for over $7,000 without the pedigree.
 
#111
The "what I paid and what I can sell it for" approach is strong on TB. And that is fine. Some here are obsessed with "the deal" and others like to have a bunch of instruments. And that is fine too. Different strokes. The value proposition is unique to each individual. That said, I believe " hobbyists" drive every brand, not just Fodera/boutiques. The percentage of bass owners who make their living only playing music is small. Yet Fender sells thousands of basses a year. So by my calculation, there are a lot of "hobbyists" driving Fender sales. Same with Ibanez. If the data was available, it could indicate that per capita Fodera is actually in the hands of a higher percentage of "pros" than other brands.

There are passionate owners of many brands. One thing that helps to set Fodera apart is the stellar customer service these days, along with a variety of build options that is largely unrivaled by any other boutique that I know of. From standard models that cost about the same as other boutiques to full customs that can be bolt-on, dovetail, neck-through, crazy wood choices, etc, combined with relatively quick build times these days - they are hitting on all cylinders.
 
#112
malthumb said:
Alembic definitely draws a very loyal followership. Maybe not so much on TB, but there is an Alembic Club sponsored on Alembic's servers but moderated by third parties that ranges from enthusiastic to over the top.

There is, as Ken suggests, a bit of churn even among the higher end brands. Some of that is due to enthusiasts trading up. Not a lot of one and done. Only months after getting my first Alembic, I packaged it and $500 in a trade to move up to a nicer model. When I finally got around to ordering the only new Alembic I've ever owned, I sold two other used Alembics I had acquired and didn't lose a penny .
Click to expand...

+1
I've experienced the same thing with my Alembic purchases and noticed the same mentality among an overwhelming number of Alembic players. Very very few are "one and done" most movement in this brand seems to be related to trading up within the Alembic line.
That said, the same thing that draws me to Alembics (over the top build quality, customization, uniqueness, sound and feel) are the same things that drive my Fodera interest. I hope to some day have a Fodera YYS but I fear it will only be the beginning (and no way am I selling any Alembics to get there).
 
#113
Sure thing! Also great that most of these high end builders build affordable gear for the people who don't have a lot of money to spend..

Though I doubt I will see a 1200 dollar Fodera on the web :p

KJung said:
You hit the nail on the head. Fodera is in NO WAY the 'name' in high end basses. It is, for sure, among the top 10 brands above that $3K or so boutique price point, regarding quality, execution, etc. However, the differences among those top 10 brands are mostly 'player preference' versus any sort of absolute 'better or worse'.

There is no way that anyone can honestly look at a tricked out Roscoe, MTD, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Ken Smith, Skjold, Fodera, etc. and say 'well, this bass is the best'.

I do have a bias toward instruments in the high end price point that really customize their hardware, pickups and preamp to work together. Fodera, MTD, Roscoe, Sadowsky, Ken Smith, Skjold, etc. all have various combinations of stock and OEM custom voiced/spec'd preamps, pickups, bridges, etc. that are designed to achieve the exact 'tone in the builder's head'. Combine that with neck design, feel and aesthetics, and there is something for everyone in the high end market.

The point is, don't limit yourself to some sort of preconceived notion that there is a 'best' out there.
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#115
One thing to consider about any custom build bass is that the more custom you get, the higher the price. Additional labor, materials and overhead go into those solid AAAAA tops, neck carves, titanium this and that. The fact that the Fodera Company in its business model have high overhead due to their location and the proximity to the NYC pros, in addition to paying for great wages and benefits for their employees means ultimately a higher entry cost to the potential Fodera owner. If this was what I was doing, you bet I'd want to attract the best talent to make my company successful. The justification of pricing will ultimately be born by the market---what may be worth it to you may not be worth it to the next person. But they must be doing something right to have been brought from almost the brink of financial disaster to finally showing their first bit of profits in 30 years. Not to mention numerous innovations in instrument building, improvements in customer service, loyal customer following, and drastic improvements in shortening build times from over 3+ years to now right around 12-13 months. What impresses me most about this company is that every customer is important, from the seasoned pro to the hobbyist. All given the same level of service and respect.
 
#118
KJung said:
LOL. Not so much. Roscoe, Sadowsky, MTD, etc. all show the same amount of enthusiasm, and the same amount of 'ex brand x users who now have seen the light because they moved to current brand y'.

There is also an equal amount of churn in these uber high end bass brands, due to the fact that most full time players can't afford them... they are driven strongly by the hobbyist, who has a great day job. Nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...



Ha ha. Just goes to show that, like value for money, passion is in the eye of the beholder. When it comes to Fodera, I do use the word passion deliberately, though. It is my strong perception that Fodera owners (well most of those contributing to the Fodera Club thread anyway) are way more than enthusiastic about their instruments.

Without taking away from any other brands (I love the tone of Roscoes and in particular the Fbass BN series for example - would love to try them out one day), it's undeniable that the Fodera thread draws an enormous amount of traffic. Just mention Fodera on TB and look how many posts it attracts...... this thread, for example. I may be wrong but there do not appear to be that many brands attracting so much comment apart from Fender, Sadowsky and AC. (Ok, maybe Dingwall too).

So why? Is it stellar customer service as suggested by Nostatic ? Is it mainly that or are there other key factors that keep Fodera customers coming back for more even at current prices? Maybe it's lots of small things cumulatively taken into account. SRFSterling5 suggests that they must be doing something right after 30 years. The 'what' is what intrigues me.

I would agree that there are very few who have a 'one and done' attitude when it comes to their instruments - me definitely included. However, I'd be interested to know how many see Fodera as THE path to easing their GAS, particularly given the price point. This may well be a rhetorical question, but it doesn't stop me asking.
 

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