Following rhythm guitars versus Bassist's 'own path'...

[Junta]

I think I first heard someone refer to bass line following rhythm guitars as 'together they make one BIG GUITAR'...

I am into heavy genres, so, would it be safe to say, most modern metal and rock stick to that 'one big guitar' approach, more or less? I gotta say, I am not a big fan! I think this a conspiracy against bass .

I mean of course, certain sections, bars... They sure benefit from that unison, mutually reinforcing approach. But certainly not every song, not all the time - I would like to think.

Here is a sweet nothing this beginner is working on - consider the following snippet as a 'scratch track' - not a finished product yet.. (clearly!). I have been trying various bass lines, so far, all separate from what the rhythm guitars are playing. By the way, I am playing everything except for the drums, which come from EZDRUMMER 3):



Next on my plate, record and compare with the above the one big guitar approach...

I go back to the greats of metal and rock, and it seems to be that the bassists following 'their own path' are in the minority, at least when it comes to the big, arena filling names. There are of course, greats as Steve Harris which quite literally lift an entire band to the top by themselves... But then there is also Judas Priest and Ian Hill who excel in a 'supporting', never once following their own path...

How does one decide? Song by song, passage by passage? bar by bar? Internal band politics? Comparative skill/stardom levels?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

Cheers!

 

[Docduval]

In part I think it’s decided by the bassist’s skill level. Not everyone can write.

 

[Junta]

In part I think it’s decided by the bassist’s skill level. Not everyone can write.

Your rather well made point demands that I confess - When I take my own bass path, it is a bit of a stretch to call it 'writing'

 

[Wasnex]

How does one decide? Song by song, passage by passage? bar by bar? Internal band politics? Comparative skill/stardom levels?

There is no one-size-fits-all. So yes; possibly to all of these.

Regarding the last two. I am actually a retired pro. Never approached stardom, but I have some decent skills. I generally don't like working with people who think they can call all of the shots and treat me like a chump. I will tolerate that kind of BS, but only if you make it worth my while! I.E. Show me the money . Not going to happen IMHO.

 

[StringCanvas]

I also think that the band you're with makes a big difference. Related, I was just having a conversation about 90s pop-punk bands with a friend. He was talking about how Dirnt is clearly a better bass player and has more dynamic lines. I don't particularly disagree with either point, but I also pointed out that the bands are a lot different. Billie Joe plays a lot of full chords, which means most of the movement belongs to Dirnt on the bass. In most Blink 182 songs, Tom's (and at times Matt's) are arpeggiated or riffy, and Travis' drumming has a lot of movement-- it makes sense that the bass would hold more of a drive while sticking to a lot of the roots and some fifths.

I think more than most instruments in the band, bass is about listening and finding what's needed to make the song complete. Sometimes it's rumbling along on the root note, and sometimes it's a funky line that provides sparkle and movement.

 

[gormsby]

My metal days are long behind me, but my two favorite metal bassists -- Cliff Burton and Steve Harris -- decidedly did their own thing. Burton could certainly "follow" the rhythm lines when the moment demanded it (or...did James follow Cliff?), but the more interesting bits was where his own thing poked up from below (those phrase ends scattered through "Leper Messiah" come to mind.) I realize metal is a very different thing these days (as also I am a very different thing than I was then.)

 

[hieronymous]

I think your track sounds great! I like how the intro part slides into the part with everything. It will be interesting to hear the "one big guitar" approach. I think both are valid!

I am a Judas Priest fan from way back - even saw them twice on the Defending the Faith tour - in Tokyo Japan! As much as I am a "bassist on their own path" kind of player, I also appreciate the approach where there is a bigger picture and the bass is in service to that.

 

[gormsby]

Love the track, and your approach here! Switching it around, including moving between "your own path" and "following the rhythm" in similar passages, is a great way to keep the music engaging.

Years ago my band was working on a section where the guitarist/songwriter wanted it to be all "disjointed and chaotic." So he messed with timing and off-tuning and such, then looked at me and the drummer and said "and you guys, too. This has to sound like a mess." I responded with "you need that bed that continues the harmonic and rhythmic reference point if your "disjointed" is going to work and be noticed. If we all do it, it just sounds like a sloppy band." And then, perhaps my most Spinal-Tap-esque moment ever: "You see, we [the drums and bass] are the order to which your chaos is juxtaposed."

We did it my way.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Best answer is “it depends”.

 

[DaveParker39]

I think it really varies.

I remember a gig when one of our guitarists had to miss because he was sick, so I just kicked on my distortion and effectively played Lemmy-style rhythm guitar bass to get through it.

But when it comes to doing *my* thing as a bass player, I'm working a lot with my drummers kick drum, dissecting chords to make basslines that make chord progressions more cohesive and emotive, and holding down the frequency range.

I honestly probably spend more time working in conjunction with drummers than guitarists to get the "tight" rhythm section thing going that has made my successful bands work.

 

[Pings Bass]

IMO the best bass is a melodic counterpoint. This goes back to the basso continuo of the Baroque period. Relegating the bass to playing roots under power chords is uninteresting to me as a listener and a player. Of course a lot of contemporary music lacks counterpoint, harmonic complexity and even melody, and people like it. So whatever floats your boat, I just prefer some movement in the bass.

 

[mambo4]

How does one decide? Song by song, passage by passage? bar by bar?

Preferably all three, in that order of importance, Double others when it works best for the song.

Internal band politics? Comparative skill/stardom levels?

but probably these in reality

 

[dbflats]

Ya do both-make it sound cool.

 

[MrWolf14]

I think what you did in this track sounds good: well done!

Personally I would add some bars where the bass doubles the riff: not always, but just to spice up things a bit.

 

[MrAB4003]

I think I first heard someone refer to bass line following rhythm guitars as 'together they make one BIG GUITAR'...

I am into heavy genres, so, would it be safe to say, most modern metal and rock stick to that 'one big guitar' approach, more or less? I gotta say, I am not a big fan! I think this a conspiracy against bass .

I mean of course, certain sections, bars... They sure benefit from that unison, mutually reinforcing approach. But certainly not every song, not all the time - I would like to think.

Here is a sweet nothing this beginner is working on - consider the following snippet as a 'scratch track' - not a finished product yet.. (clearly!). I have been trying various bass lines, so far, all separate from what the rhythm guitars are playing. By the way, I am playing everything except for the drums, which come from EZDRUMMER 3):



Next on my plate, record and compare with the above the one big guitar approach...

I go back to the greats of metal and rock, and it seems to be that the bassists following 'their own path' are in the minority, at least when it comes to the big, arena filling names. There are of course, greats as Steve Harris which quite literally lift an entire band to the top by themselves... But then there is also Judas Priest and Ian Hill who excel in a 'supporting', never once following their own path...

How does one decide? Song by song, passage by passage? bar by bar? Internal band politics? Comparative skill/stardom levels?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

Cheers!

It depends on the song, sub-genre of rock or metal, bassist's level of talent, and the bassist's role in the band relative to the guitar(s) and drums.

IMO the best bass is a melodic counterpoint. This goes back to the basso continuo of the Baroque period. Relegating the bass to playing roots under power chords is uninteresting to me as a listener and a player. Of course a lot of contemporary music lacks counterpoint, harmonic complexity and even melody, and people like it. So whatever floats your boat, I just prefer some movement in the bass.

I use melodic counterpoint A LOT in my original songs because I'm a better bassist than I am a guitarist. But melodic counterpoint doesn't always work. Sometimes, a heavy "wall of sound" from the bass and the guitar(s) playing the same things is better.

 

[mambo4]

I would add some bars where the bass doubles the riff: not always, but just to spice up things a bit.

I think many players ( myself included, once ) tend to react to "match the guitar" or "match the kick drum" as bass player 101 , first year stuff, beginner advice. And for new players it is indeed a very effective solution to locking in and sounding tight. I think there is a tendency to look down on these as we improve, as if doing so is a crutch.

But eventually I learned that those "beginner" tactics are also sonically very distinct, and can be incredibly effective when used in the right place for a song. It's a sound you want in your tool kit, to be used when your ever expanding taste, skill , and ear tells you there's a good place for it. After all, everybody doubling a chuggy metal riff can be pretty epic.

 

[Iristone]

Try both, see which one fits better.

 

[MojoPin]

People get caught up too much not being in the spotlight.... It's all about what is BEST for the music, end of story. Dunno why this is difficult or why this is even a question. I get discussions are fun but the answer is obvious.

 

[bassbrad]

There are times to double up lines and other times to create your own part, IMHO the challenge is deciding when and where to do that. I tend to start doubling a riff or line and then depart in longer sections returning at a crucial point, like the end of a solo or before going into another section like the chorus or bridge.

 

[dbflats]

When in doubt, tape your band practices and listen back to hear what sounds cool.