Ever tried roasting your own? Invalid Link Removed has a great selection of Central American green coffee.
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For Tequila Lovers
- Thread starter Lobster11
- Start date
Ever tried roasting your own? Invalid Link Removed has a great selection of Central American green coffee.
Yes I have. A buddy and I have been roasting little batches here and there. We are now in the process of building our own roaster so we can do three to five pounds at a time. So far, we have been able to source our beans from local roasters and I am working on networking with growers in South America. Look out world....I may be the next Juan Valdez. 
-Mike
-Mike
One of you coffee guys ought to start a new thread dedicated to coffee, dontcha think?
Honest, I'm not trying to get rid of you, and I really don't object to the occasional non-tequila-related post. This isn't a complaint: It just sounds to me like you coffee aficionados have a lot to talk about, and there are probably lots of other TBers (myself included) who would be interested in such a thread.
Honest, I'm not trying to get rid of you, and I really don't object to the occasional non-tequila-related post. This isn't a complaint: It just sounds to me like you coffee aficionados have a lot to talk about, and there are probably lots of other TBers (myself included) who would be interested in such a thread.
No need to apologize. Really, I just think a "Coffee Lover's" thread might turn out to be very popular and interesting. And as I said, I'd be interested in following it myself to learn more about coffee....
The mix used for Bourbon/Rye isn't necessarily whiskey.
It is often pure "grain alcohol" made from refined sugar.
Just like Tequila.
While drinking a mixto tequila is essentially compable to mixing a drink for yourself that is half puro tequila, and half the-cheapest-unaged-rum-you-can find...
Drinking cheap bourbon is essentially compable to mixing a drink for yourself that is half bourbon, and half the-cheapest-unaged-Everclear-you-can find mixed with water.
You don't even have to look at homebrew - most mass produced beers (Bud, Coors, etc.) use large amounts of pure sugars in addition to malted products for fermentation.
The mashbills for most bourbon and rye distillers tell otherwise. Grain neutral spirits or grain alcohol is not made from refined sugar but from fermented grain.
You haven't been looking at the real cheap ones then.
ANY ethanol is "grain alcohol".
If you can drink it, without central nervous system damage (see methanol) - it is grain alcohol.
C2H5OH. Grain alcohol.
Doesn't matter whether the Saccharomycotina are eating sugar produced by amylase in a malted grain, or pure cane sugar... it's still "grain alcohol".
Your recent posts prompted me to do some research, and I now wish to propose a compromise: We're both right, in different ways.
First, I confirmed that "blended" whiskeys can in fact contain considerable amounts of "grain alcohol" (or "neutral grain spirits"), which as you say is virtually pure ethanol (and therefore it doesn't much matter what fermentable it originally derives from.) I even found several references claiming that "Kentucky Gentleman" in particular is 51% corn whiskey and 49% grain alcohol. One commentator described such "blended whiskeys," with much derision, as "whiskey-flavored vodka." So I have to admit that this sounds an awful lot like my characterization of mixto tequilas as essential "tequila-flavored rum" (though I didn't use those exact words).
Second, though, there is an important difference in the way blended whiskeys and mixto tequilas are made that, at least to my mind, still makes mixtos qualitatively "worse." In blended whiskeys, the "real" whiskeys and the grain alcohol are produced -- fermented, distilled, and possibly also aged -- separately, and then subsequently blended. Because the "grain whiskey" or "grain alcohol" is distilled many, many times until it is virtually pure ethanol, it has virtually no flavor (other than "alcohol flavor"). So, the more of this stuff you blend with your "real" whiskey, the more it should dilute the flavor -- but it shouldn't add any other undesirable flavors.
That's not how mixto tequilas are made, however. Instead, the sugar cane juice (or other sugar cane product) is added to the agave early in the process so that it all ferments together, and then distilled -- usually twice, the minimum required by Mexican law. This means that the flavors of the non-agave fermentables will not be eliminated -- at least not any moreso than the flavors of the agave fermentables. And that would explain why a mixto tequila tastes different from (and invariably worse than) a puro, rather than tasting merely weaker or more dilute. It really is a kind of tequila/rum hybrid, not merely blended after the fact but actually produced as a single hybrid beverage.
BTW, this also highlights the difference between homebrewed beer that includes a significant amount of sugar in the recipe, and a major beer producer adding a little grain alcohol to the mix. In the latter case, the flavor of the beer is merely diluted, whereas in (bad) homebrew the (mostly undesirable) flavors of the non-malt fermentables are retained.
Thanks for a good argument -- I learned a lot!
I'm already a coffee and bourbon snob, might as well add tequila snob as well. Only puros for me!
-Mike
-Mike
Actually, major beer producers generally aren't adding a little grain alcohol to the mix. They're using refined sugars, mixed with malted grains, as fermentables. Much more like the mixto/puro difference than what is usually done with whiskey (which as you noted above is usually a mix of already distilled liquors).
For example - Miller Light, Coors, Corona, Fosters, Pabst, and Red Stripe use corn syrup as a fermentable.
Budweiser, Bud Light, Bush Light, and Michelob Ultra use dextrose.
Ha! I've long thought of that stuff as "not-really-beer," so now I have some technical grounds to point to when someone offers me one and I say "No thanks, I'd rather have a beer."
I hereby concede my point that the puro/mixto distinction is entirely unique to tequila, and that it also applies to beer in this way. I have no problem with the idea that "beer" produced this way is every bit as worthy of condemnation as a mixto.
For knowing enough about chemistry to be able to copy and paste a chemical formula, you missed the section that covered what constituted "grain" alcohol.
I could teach you a class on all things whisk(e)y if you want but this is Talkbass and I really don't have the time nor the desire.If you wanna talk single malts or Pappy and Stagg, I'm all ears. If you wanna continue with the frat-boy swill, I'm out (some of us do grow up
).
If you wanna talk single malts or Pappy and Stagg, I'm all ears. If you wanna continue with the frat-boy swill, I'm out (some of us do grow up
Eh - I don't drink crap bourbon (or any bourbon... WAY too sweet for my palate), but I know about how the crap (whether cheap blended whisky, mixto tequila, or beer full of crap adjuncts) is made.
I'm in Austin this weekend, and there is a tequila bar across the street from our hotel. I'm thinking I'll wander over there at some point and further my education.
-Mike
-Mike
Never saw this thread before, but I am a BIG fan of Espolón Tequila. Absolutely wonderful stuff for a very reasonable price.
We didn't make it to the tequilar bar, but I had a Don Julio reposado and a Patron blanco Saturday night. I had them with no ice and room temperature. I am most definitely a blanco guy.
The Patron blanco was smooth and fresh tasting. I finished it before I even realized it was gone. Good to the last drop. I could see myself sipping this now and then. It had a cool feeling as it went down and was pleasant to the nose.
The Don Julio was too aggressive tasting for me. It smelled strongly and really took over as I swallowed. It wasn't bad tequila, just too bold for me I suppose.
It would probably be nice to have a reposado in the collection for guests who may prefer it, but I certainly won't be sipping a glass now and then.
As for price points on both, I am unsure. I was at a company gathering where the boss picked up the tab. It was a swanky lounge in the Austin Hilton, so all they seemed to have was the higher end alcohols. It would have been nice to try something not as high profile. The next time we are in Austin, I am going to make a point to go to the tequila bar by our hotel.
-Mike
The Patron blanco was smooth and fresh tasting. I finished it before I even realized it was gone. Good to the last drop. I could see myself sipping this now and then. It had a cool feeling as it went down and was pleasant to the nose.
The Don Julio was too aggressive tasting for me. It smelled strongly and really took over as I swallowed. It wasn't bad tequila, just too bold for me I suppose.
It would probably be nice to have a reposado in the collection for guests who may prefer it, but I certainly won't be sipping a glass now and then.
As for price points on both, I am unsure. I was at a company gathering where the boss picked up the tab. It was a swanky lounge in the Austin Hilton, so all they seemed to have was the higher end alcohols. It would have been nice to try something not as high profile. The next time we are in Austin, I am going to make a point to go to the tequila bar by our hotel.
-Mike
Glad to see that you're making good progress on your research. Too bad you couldn't make it to the tequila bar, though: That would have given you a chance to order a flight and taste 3 or 4 or 5 different brands side by side. Plus, you almost certainly would have a knowledgeable bartender who could help you choose not only which ones to taste in order to sample a broad spectrum, but what order to taste them in (usually milder to bolder).
As for what you did sample, you were comparing (expensive) apples with (equally expensive) apples price-wise: Patron and Don Julio are usually very similar in price: Where I live, they are both about 50 bucks for a 750 ml bottle of blanco, and 5 bucks more for the repo. However, if you're doing "serious" research, you really need to compare blanco-vs-blanco or repo-vs-repo across brands, or compare blanco-vs-reposado within the same brand. Apart from marketing, Patron's popularity is largely due to its very mild, smooth flavor -- which the major distributors and distillers have determined is what most Americans prefer -- whereas Don Julio is much more bold and full-flavored. So, you compared an unusually bold repo with an unusually mild blanco. You might well turn out to be a blanco guy -- if so, welcome to the club! -- but don't decide based on this particular comparison. Within a given brand, it's often the case that the repo is smoother and more mellow than the blanco (which is one reason I usually prefer blancos).
I hasten to add that I don't mean to suggest that "smooth and mellow" is somehow inferior to "bold and full-flavored," although that is generally my own personal preference. Once you equate quality it becomes a matter of personal taste. I'm sure the same is true in coffee world, no?
