For those who Pino did not study because he does not read...

[Dr. Cheese]

It’s a good lesson, Pino connection or not.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

This guy published the worst bass book ever in the 80's. He doing name dropping also here....

If he ain’t lying, my point still stands.

 

[SLO Surfer]

I study female anatomy at the beach, every time. But I still don't know how to read them!

edit: I apologize @Dr. Cheese. That comment was inappropriate and not conducive to your thread's discussion. Pino is a badass bassist who can't read notation. (So is Vic Wooten, I believe)

"Studying" can mean many different things with many differing results. And one can "study" music and/or bass playing enough to become rich and famous without learning to read notated music. (transcribing bass parts is "studying music" in my "book.") Many examples of both people who read or don't read music in the rich and famous column.

 

[Groove Master]

If he ain’t lying, my point still stands.

The lesson would be as good also without using Pino's name to validate his point.....

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I study female anatomy at the beach, every time. But I still don't know how to read them!

edit: I apologize @Dr. Cheese. That comment was inappropriate and not conducive to your thread's discussion. Pino is a badass bassist who can't read notation. (So is Vic Wooten, I believe)

"Studying" can mean many different things with many differing results. And one can "study" music and/or bass playing enough to become rich and famous without learning to read notated music. (transcribing bass parts is "studying music" in my "book.") Many examples of both people who read or don't read music in the rich and famous column.

Wooten reads pretty well from what I have seen. I started this thread because some act as if Pino is a savant, and not someone who has worked hard at his craft.
Also, I was never offended.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

The lesson would be as good also without using Pino's name to validate his point.....

I am not worried about Hubbard. I am making the point that great players have put in the work, whether they read or not.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I'm trying to figure out what's in front of Pino.
Notes? Chord charts?

Here is that video.

 

[LBS-bass]

I'm trying to figure out what's in front of Pino.
Notes? Chord charts?

Usually if I have paper in front of me it's a chord chart or lyrics; assume Pino doesn't need lyrics.

My sight reading is poor so if you put SN in front of me I would need to take it home and study it. I would come back to the studio and play it from memory once I've worked out what you want.

That makes me a poor choice as a studio player unless you're willing to trust me to find the vibe/groove and represent that well with just a chord chart. Also, sometimes the chord chart also contains notation, which I will probably ignore. If music notes are on those pages it doesn't mean he's reading them.

 

[Phil Smith]

It's hard to fathom that Pino has no ability to read.

 

[Les Fret]

I'm trying to figure out what's in front of Pino.
Notes? Chord charts?

View attachment 4967064


Here is that video.

Looks like a blank page....

 

[mambo4]

It's hard to fathom that Pino has no ability to read.

I'd bet he has *some* ability to read, just not sight read.

I've posted before that there are 4 ways to understand a musical concept:

• how it sounds
• how it's executed
• what it's commonly called
• how its notated

The cliche master player who "doesn't know theory" is usually well versed in the first 3, and somewhat ignorant of the last one

 

[Whousedtoplay]

how it sounds

I'm a little bit confused because, "How It Sounds" is (the) one of the most important things in Music.

how it's executed

Another statement that separates between an amateur bass player (like WUTP) and a PRO one.

P.S. I'm still working on that term, CLICHE MASTER(?).

 

[mambo4]

Yes how it sounds is the most important thing, that's why its first in the list
Many players learn to execute a scale/mode/arpeggio
and then think they "know" it, w/out having memorized the sound

The "cliché master" should be parsed as "cliché master musician who doesn't know theory"
A musician people always bring up as an excuse not to study something
"Hendrix didn't know theory"
"McCartney and Lennon couldn't read a note"
"Pino can't read"
etc

the point being that such players do understand theory,
at least as far sound and execution is concerned

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The "cliché master" should be parsed as "cliché master musician who doesn't know theory"

I'm just trying for you to say,
"Pino is NOT A CLICHE MASTER."

The cliche master player who "doesn't know theory" is usually well versed in the first 3, and somewhat ignorant of the last one

The musicians who know theory are also (or should be) well versed in the first 3 points.

 

[mambo4]

Here's a guy who knows all 4, explaining "how to use modes" for improvising:

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Here's a guy who knows all 4, explaining "how to use modes"

I remember days (a long time ago) when mambo4 used to tell me,
"You don't need to know modes. You need to know scales."

 

[JRA]

I am making the point that great players have put in the work, whether they read or not.

i have a lot of respect for all of the great players/musicians who say they don't read (i think most can decipher, but maybe they don't claim "sightreading" as a negotiable skill). e.g., TB is full of wonderful musicians, some of whom read like the blazes and some of whom don't. but if you know your fingerboard = part of the way there... you're not reading, but you are knowing! so i'm very sure that pino is way more than halfway there, whether he can, at tempo, read black dots on a staff or not.

i encourage all aspiring musicians to learn how to decipher standard notation. but if you don't, and if you go on to become that great player = awesome! i do not believe that you have to sight-read to be a successful musician. i do believe that being able to decipher the 'universal language' (western music, more or less) is as helpful as knowing the fingerboard.

but no matter what, i agree with the doctor: "great players have put in the work, whether they read or not!"

 

[mambo4]

I remember days (a long time ago) when mambo4 used to tell me,
"You don't need to know modes. You need to know scales."

A different Gary Burton video someone posted (maybe you) was one of the things that shifted my stance

Another thing that original Gary Burton video demonstrated was that he was applying these modal sounds over entire progressions , sequences of chords, because that's where his ear led him. He didn't think in "Chord X means Mode Y" formulas.

I still think Modes generate more discussion / confusion / adoration than their practical usefulness deserves, though.
( as I bloat this zombie thread about modes)

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Yes how it sounds is the most important thing, that's why its first in the list
Many players learn to execute a scale/mode/arpeggio
and then think they "know" it, w/out having memorized the sound

The "cliché master" should be parsed as "cliché master musician who doesn't know theory"
A musician people always bring up as an excuse not to study something
"Hendrix didn't know theory"
"McCartney and Lennon couldn't read a note"
"Pino can't read"
etc

the point being that such players do understand theory,
at least as far sound and execution is concerned

Saying that one is not going to bother learning reading because Hendryx, MacCartney, or Prince, didn’t read amounts to someone saying that because great geniuses didn’t learn to read, I won’t. The problem is that the great majority of those non-readers are nowhere near genius status.

 

[LBS-bass]

the point being that such players do understand theory,
at least as far sound and execution is concerned

A quibble. I would say they know how to execute well the things that theory describes. They may or may not know how to describe it.